The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:56 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,189
Default

Depends on the kind of jazz music. There ain't one 'jazz sound.'
__________________
Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:10 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
Depends on the kind of jazz music. There ain't one 'jazz sound.'
Thats kinda what i m saying . The player should know the sound he wants to play to an arch top and he must search to the right guitar for it.

To me Godin sounds a little "airy" and the basses have a "paper" sound...but thats me
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-01-2013, 11:05 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
But I guess what I really want to know is whether there is some minimum level where you can assume that you are getting a quality instrument?
"Quality" means many different things to many different people and in many different circumstances. "Quality" isn't necessarily defined by price tag.

Quote:
Even if it isn't the ideal, many of us buy our instruments online because we live in isolated parts of the country, far from a venue where we can play dozens of instruments and pick the one we like the most. This is even harder to do when it comes to archtops. For most of us, it is just not feasible to try 10-15 different archtops. I have played most of my friends' instruments, but these are mostly $5k+ guitars owned by jazz majors.
I guess it depends upon what you want. If you are looking for an inexpensive, random instrument off the shelf, then buy on-line sight-unseen. If you are looking for that "special" instrument, one you will cherish your lifetime, travel to where you can play a wide variety of arch tops. Personally, I wouldn't spend $5k on a guitar before playing it. Sure, depending upon terms and conditions, you can send your on-line purchase back if you don't like it, but that's a crap-shoot. Not the way I'd want to spend $5k or so.

Quote:
I was sort of hoping that the collective wisdom of a forum could help set something of a baseline, but perhaps that is asking too much?
There really isn't a baseline. Each instrument needs to be assessed on its own merits and compared to what you, personally, define as "quality" and what are your needs. As others have said, it's the musician, not the instrument, that defines "professional". A professional can make almost any instrument sound good. Beyond that, it is what that individual musician prefers and can afford.

Don't buy into the guitar-major nonsense that you have to have this or that kind of guitar, at this or that price range, as the entry criteria to being "good" or "serious" or "a member of the club".
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-01-2013, 03:09 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY - for now
Posts: 14,985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
..."Quality" isn't necessarily defined by price tag...There really isn't a baseline. Each instrument needs to be assessed on its own merits...Don't buy into the guitar-major nonsense that you have to have this or that kind of guitar, at this or that price range, as the entry criteria to being "good" or "serious" or "a member of the club."
Excellent advice, from which I think there's a few folks over on the General forum who could benefit...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-01-2013, 03:12 PM
kirkham13 kirkham13 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bisbee AZ
Posts: 1,429
Default

I guess after hearing many well schooled opinions, especially the last one, the answer I have formed is that first a player needs to discover their music in jazz, and the sound they seek ( challenging without playing several guitars). I am leaning towards a mature Joe Pass at the moment, and would ideally like a more acoustic tonality... My first archtop will have a budget of about what I can trade the Martin in my sig for, and will likely be purchased off ebay sight unseen. The Martin is so good I need to wait till I find something equally good. Fortunately, my plan is to purchase in 2014 so I have time to study up and wait.
__________________
Sakazo Nakade Flamenco 1964
Bourgeois D Adi Tasmanian Blackwood 2011
Tom Anderson Strat 1990s
Schecter California Classic Strat 1990s
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-01-2013, 04:02 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY - for now
Posts: 14,985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkham13 View Post
...my plan is to purchase in 2014 so I have time to study up and wait.
I'd also suggest you save up and wait - and while you're waiting, take a day trip down to the Boston area and get some hands-on experience. I'd strongly recommend the Music Emporium in Lexington - one of the better-known high-end dealers (although not all of their instruments are high-end price-wise), and they usually have a selection of quality archtops (both new and vintage) in stock...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-01-2013, 07:05 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

Please define "better".

And have you owned a 5th Avenue in order to make your statement that other guitars do "it better" ?

As mentioned, Sylvain Luc plays a Godin 5th Ave he also plays an inexpensive nylon string mahogany backs and sides guitar. He is highly skilled and very successful... he can afford what he wants and he has chosen Goding Kingpin and 5th Ave and cheap classical. He is a professional.. therefore his guitar choices are professional level.

I also own 5th ave and my grandson plays one more than any of his other guitars. He owns very good classicals and an Am Std Tele as well as others.... he favors the 5th Ave.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-01-2013, 07:06 PM
Bern's Avatar
Bern Bern is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,748
Default

Archtops, generally speaking, do depend on their pickup system and amp to achieve a good sound. That being said, lesser expensive models can be sufficient if the play-ability is good or even just acceptable. If the an archtop is used as an acoustic instrument the cost goes up quite a bit for reasons, I assume, you all know. Basically, if you want the best of both worlds, you gotta pay.
__________________
There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major...
Sergei Prokofiev
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-01-2013, 07:52 PM
Spook Spook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 882
Default

Yes. It's the musician not the gear, there is some good gear available at moderate prices, and the concept of 'professional grade' is likely unanswerable.

However, if I may offer a respectful alternative view..

If you show up with an SG and Marshall stack you had better be one helluva player or you will be viewed as a clueless noob. Maybe even regardless of how you play. I don't know how $500 Godin's are received in the role of primary instrument but I'm guessing not well. Not the best path to the level of social acceptance that is absolutely necessary for a solid musical education.

I recommend a quality instrument that nobody would question except in asking to play it. Specifically a Heritage 575. Like Bern said, you're going to care most about the electric sound though having an acoustic sound above tele levels is nice for practice. If you track the Heritage users forum you can find very good deals with just moderate patience. These are among the most versatile of instruments and you may keep it virtually forever. The instrument will be highly regarded by your peers and if anyone thinks this is not important, they haven't been a youth studying music at college. You should be able to get a nice one for $1500-$1750. You can probably get by fine with a Roland Cube amp.
__________________
Spook
Southern Oregon

Last edited by Spook; 09-01-2013 at 08:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:11 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
Please define "better".

And have you owned a 5th Avenue in order to make your statement that other guitars do "it better" ?

As mentioned, Sylvain Luc plays a Godin 5th Ave he also plays an inexpensive nylon string mahogany backs and sides guitar. He is highly skilled and very successful... he can afford what he wants and he has chosen Goding Kingpin and 5th Ave and cheap classical. He is a professional.. therefore his guitar choices are professional level.

I also own 5th ave and my grandson plays one more than any of his other guitars. He owns very good classicals and an Am Std Tele as well as others.... he favors the 5th Ave.
Other guitars in that price range have a more traditional jazz sound ...that means better... better for Jazz!

As for Luc , he plays exclusively Godin guitars because he has a contract with Godin and maybe its not wise to think that you own the same quality guitar that Luc plays.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:16 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

The first archtops were acoustic and remained so for many decades.

I would suggest there is a very large difference between an archtop guitar and an electric guitar with an archtop.

This is not unlike the difference between an acoustic flat-top guitar and a Maton that is , at best, a speaker box with strings and a pickup.

I have owned and enjoy electric archtop guitars but do not refer to them as archtops, I refer to them as electric guitars and refer to Teles, Strats and the like as solid body electric.

Archtop acoustics, such as those made by Benedetto, Eastman et al with fingerboard mounted floating pickups are archtop guitars ...significantly because the do not have pickups screwed into the top or cavities dug out of the top to accomodate pickups.

Last edited by kscobie8; 09-02-2013 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Rule #1
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:19 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

I know a bit about Sylvain Luc. He played Godins years before his association with the company. He plays off the shelf Godins.


"Other guitars in that price range have a more traditional jazz sound ...that means better... better for Jazz!"
Please define "traditional jazz sound".

To quote Mr. Beaumont: "There ain't one 'jazz sound.' "


And please answer my first question.. have you owned a 5th Avenue ?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:26 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

no I don't own a 5th ave or a peerless or a Ibanez PM or a Gibson L5..but I have an opinion ...with your permit ion of course.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:29 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

I have followed his career and his playing for many years.
I am also friends with a Godin factory rep of 15 years. He knows Sylvain Luc personally.

Please define "traditional jazz sound" ?

If you have not owned a 5th Avenue or other archtop guitars, upon what do you base your opinions. It is usual to base opinions on fact and experience.

Last edited by kscobie8; 09-02-2013 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Rule #1, don't make it personal
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-01-2013, 09:40 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
No need to. I have followed his career and his playing for many years.
I am also friends with a Godin factory rep of 15 years. He knows Sylvain Luc personally.

Please define "traditional jazz sound" ?

If you have not owned a 5th Avenue or other archtop guitars, upon what do you base your opinions. It is usual to base opinions on fact and experience.

I base my opinion to the music I ve heard in my life.. from wes to jimmy hall to joe pass to jimmy Bruno to pat metheny

as for Luc his bio says that he is ambassador for Godin Guitars from 1993...hmmm

Last edited by kscobie8; 09-02-2013 at 08:11 AM. Reason: edited quote
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=