Just ordered a resonater 10 minutes ago!!!

[jt1]

Wade,

I think that the inescapable conclusion here is that my picking style is far too wimpy to get a National cone to move!

[blue]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

But for what it's worth, Don Young at National Reso-Phonic was not nearly as surprised as you and Blue seem to be when I mentioned the cones shifting to him. His basic attitude was that it happens, and they just need to get scooted back into position.


whm

I'll buy individual instrument "character" being the cause of negative shifting. But I have to go with the fact that it isn't that common. I too have a 1932 Lap. I also have a radiotone bendaway, a polychrome, a style 1, and a baritone from the modern company, and have owned a sytle O and a reso-rocket previously. I play/played them all. No issues.

I do believe the cones "work into position" to a point where they are most happy. So they do move. But to a "final resting place". And in my experience, that resting place is a happy hunting ground, not Tartarus.

So if they move, and there is an issue with the well, either off center, or uneven, or not level, or whatever, they can move badly. It's why God invented felt

[blue]

Originally Posted by jt1

I'll second Blue's sentiments in this thread and quote Bob Brozman on National maintenance: "Never take the strign tension off the resonator or take apart the coverplate/resonator assembly unless there is a very good reason!" (p. 243 of Bob's book, "National Resonator Instruments.")

I agree with that statement completely, but to be truthful, Bob has backed away a little from the "never work on a resonator" statement. Remember when he wrote that book there hadn't been a new one built since early in the war years. He didn't want amateurs messing up the few remaining working examples.

It's still best in my opinion not to touch them if you don't have to.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by jt1

Wade,

I think that the inescapable conclusion here is that my picking style is far too wimpy to get a National cone to move!

Well, we'd have to sit across from each other in the same room passing the same instruments back and forth between us for me to verify that particular statement, John!

But I do extract a lot of volume out of my National mandolins; I lead the singing of a choir/worship music group and a congregation of a few hundred people, playing unamplified while an electric bass, electronic drum set and grand piano are playing as well. The only amplification I use on the instrument is the same area mic that picks up the choir's vocals.

I used to lead the group using a Sumi-era Kentucky KM-604 oval hole mandolin, which was and is an absolutely terrific mandolin. But I had to plug in for it to be heard - my friends at LR Baggs installed a transducer pickup into its bridge for me.

Run through a Baggs Para-Acoustic DI preamp it sounded very good, but I like keeping things unamplified when possible. So the National mandolins have been a godsend to me.

It's probably safe to assume, though, that I have a fairly robust right hand attack on it, particularly during the louder pieces where everyone is standing and singing their hearts out.

You might be interested in one modification that MacGregor Gaines did for me on the RM-1: he designed a handrest that still allows me to drop my palm onto the mandolin's bridge to mute the strings and color the tone at will. I do a lot of palm-muting on every instrument I play, so it was important that I be able to reach it.

The handrest curves around just to the "south" (tailpiece side) of the bridge saddle, and is the same height as the standard handrest. So the mandolin's cone is still protected should the instrument fall face forward onto a flat surface.

All and all, I'm very pleased with it. I had some input into the design of the RM-1 - originally Don and Mac planned to base the design of the RM-1 on the rare bird woodbody pre-war National mandolin I own. But through a long trial and error development they came up with the modern RM-1 design. It isn't quite as sweet-sounding as the pre-war example, but it's a superb instrument.


whm

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

John, where I notice the cones shifting is on my National mandolins, both on my modern RM-1 and on the vintage woodbody mandolin that dates from just before WWII. I don't play my National M2 guitar as frequently as I do the mandolins - I've converted to using the Nationals from Gibson-style archtop mandolins almost exclusively not just because they sound great, but because of the vocal-like musical phrasing possible on them.

So the mandolins are the Nationals that get used most at my house, the modern one particularly. The vintage one sounds magnificent, but it's simply not as robust as the modern one, and the intonation isn't as accurate, either. (No surprise there...)

But for what it's worth, Don Young at National Reso-Phonic was not nearly as surprised as you and Blue seem to be when I mentioned the cones shifting to him. His basic attitude was that it happens, and they just need to get scooted back into position.


whm

Once again I agree with Wade, National cones shift, I own 5 Nationals (two artist models which were built with great care), and owned a few more, both vintage and modern . I've scooted a few cones back into place It's no big deal, and it's usually from slack tunings. One of my favorite tunings is DGDGGD and with light strings it's the most slack tuning I use.

Here's my favorite from this weekend...

[jt1]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Well, we'd have to sit across from each other in the same room passing the same instruments back and forth between us for me to verify that particular statement, John!

I'm telling you, Wade, I'm just not manly enough! I'm no match for a National Resophonic Instrument.

Seriously, we would have to sit across from one another. But, I'm a fingerpicker, don't play (much) mandolin as a consequence, and really didn't understand at first how you could move heaven, earth, and resonator cone. Now, I've got it.

[Wade Hampton]

I'm not sure about the moving heaven and earth part, but resonator cones? Definitely.


whm

[blue]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

It's no big deal, and it's usually from slack tunings. One of my favorite tunings is DGDGGD and with light strings it's the most slack tuning I use.

Hmm... I bet light strings and shallow neck angles would definitely let some major shift happen. I use pretty heavy strings. Never lighter than "resonator" style 16-56, and usually heavier on the bottom end. Let's not even discuss my baritone strings