Fender Tube Amps - I have questions

[lmacmil]

Originally Posted by knuckle

I'm looking for something hand wired, so I can replace stuff if needed.

I'll have about $1200 or so to spend.

You'd be lucky to get a blackface DR for $1500. You can probably find a silverface for $1000 or so. You'd get a better deal with a Pro Reverb, they are not as popular.

[trpullen]

For the prices these days and the actual quality of the build, I would look at Allen Amps or Port City Amps. Both make incredible amps, all handwired and all very affordable. I have a Port City Cab and it sounds so nice. I will own an Allen Sweet Spot at some point...you can bank on it.

I also really like the Rivera stuff (Paul Rivera used to design amps for Fender). He uses circuit boards BUT very heavy duty ... probably MILSPEC or close. I have a Rivera Venus 3 and it is amazing.

[knuckle]

Well I emailed the manufacturer of the cigar box guitars and they said that their guitars sound fantastic through tube amps.

However like I said, my budget is $1500 max. Sligo gets good reviews on their FDR's even though they are Weber kits.

Still entertaining all options though. Matchless looks cool, but I'm not spending 2k on a 1x12 combo. Can't do it.

Allen amps looks pretty cool as well.

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Well I emailed the manufacturer of the cigar box guitars and they said that their guitars sound fantastic through tube amps.

However like I said, my budget is $1500 max. Sligo gets good reviews on their FDR's even though they are Weber kits.

Still entertaining all options though. Matchless looks cool, but I'm not spending 2k on a 1x12 combo. Can't do it.

Allen amps looks pretty cool as well.

Man, you are all over the map now! You need to go to some good guitar stores and play some amps. And, you need to take that fantastic sounding cigar box guitar in order to see what it will really sound like.

I still don't understand why you don't cut back a bit on the amp budget and get a real guitar? Get a Silverface Fender Deluxe or Pro Reverb and aa guitar. You can do that with $1500.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by terrapin

Man, you are all over the map now! You need to go to some good guitar stores and play some amps. And, you need to take that fantastic sounding cigar box guitar in order to see what it will really sound like.

I still don't understand why you don't cut back a bit on the amp budget and get a real guitar? Get a Silverface Fender Deluxe or Pro Reverb and aa guitar. You can do that with $1500.

Yeah, gotta agree with this.

Start with figuring out what kind of tones you want and what volume, because at this point the question is sort of like "what kind of automobile should I buy?" ...well, do you need a pickup? A camper? A sports car? Something to haul 12 kids to soccer...?

My favorite handbuilt bootik amps are "Magic", built by Michael Moody, down in L.A. But those of his I've played have been either Vox or Vox/Supro knock offs...so suggesting one of his to you assumes you are looking for Vox chime or Supro grind.

I like my Princeton Reverb because I like Fender clean and play at low volumes....

But it's really pointless to discuss specific amps before deciding on context and tone. You at least gotta figure out whether you want something built around:

Fender clean
Blackface Fender grind
Tweed Fender grind
Marshall grind
Vox chime

...but that's just like asking for the menu and trying to figure out whether you want breakfast, lunch, dinner, or a midnight snack.

As for price points, although I've stuck with Silverface Fenders, I've been fortunate enough to have a good, local buddy and occasional bandmate who has let me play, literally, over a dozen of the sweetest bootik amps that have passed thru his hands this past decades. Rivera, Allen, Zen, Marshall, Carr...and all kinds of one off stuff swapped over on thegearpage.net and other gear-obsession webpages ...buying used, I don't think he's ever sunk more than $1,000 into any one of them.

...and they all sounded killer, killer, killer.

You could start with some used digital modelling amp off of Craigslist for a couple hundred bucks, just to get a sense of what kinds of tones and volumes you like. Most of those digital amps use the kinds of terms I'm using in this post, and that would give you an actual sonic context to begin honing in on what you're after. In the meantime, yeah, just start hitting the stores and playing everything they have.

Cuz that's half the fun.

[Gypsyblue]

Man: get real. Forget about the gas can and cigar box guitars and forget about what the manufacturer of the gas can guitars tells you about how great they sound. They're just looking for a sucker to sell a gas can guitar to.

Get into a guitar store and try some real guitars through some real amps.

Try some MIM Strats. Try some Fender Blues Junior amps. Buy something good. And listen to the advice the good folks here on the AGF are trying to give you.

[knuckle]

Guys, you are missing my point here. I'm not an electric player. If I was, I'd sound and look like every other band out there with my tele or strat.

First off the gas can guitar builder is a one man show. A guy who I've been friends with for a while on another forum. He started building the things, people like them and I offered to have him build one for me. Are they a Les Paul? No, but they are a crazy looking functional guitar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmbU-XBnZWI

The builder of the cigar box guitars I spoke with asking him if he recommends tube or solid state. I told him the recommendations on here "that tube will sound like crap" and he said bullocks.

Mostly the gas can guitar and cigar box guitars are for show. To break out here and there for the WTF factor. We're an acoustic band primarily.

I'm looking for a tube amp, I think. That I can play a few tunes with the guitars that I'm buying through and perhaps plug in my resonator guitars here and there for a little more oomph than the standard clean that the QSC's provide. I'm looking for something that simply does cleans well and does a little bit of dirt well switchable with a foot switch.

The thing does not have to be 100W, but I don't think I want 5W either. Something like 15-30 and if that's not loud enough, I mic it through the PA.

Not I'm not knocking guys that play electric. Have at it, but for my circus, I don't want to move in that direction yet.

One of the problems I have is direct experience with gear. I do not get out much. I spend 90% of my time playing and writing and teaching my band how to play the songs. Gear has taken a back seat to that. I don't want to get to where I was back in the heavy metal days, that is turning knobs more than I play music.

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Guys, you are missing my point here. I'm not an electric player. If I was, I'd sound and look like every other band out there with my tele or strat.

Mostly the gas can guitar and cigar box guitars are for show. To break out here and there for the WTF factor. We're an acoustic band primarily.

I'm looking for a tube amp, I think. That I can play a few tunes with the guitars that I'm buying through and perhaps plug in my resonator guitars here and there for a little more oomph than the standard clean that the QSC's provide. I'm looking for something that simply does cleans well and does a little bit of dirt well switchable with a foot switch.

The thing does not have to be 100W, but I don't think I want 5W either. Something like 15-30 and if that's not loud enough, I mic it through the PA.

Not I'm not knocking guys that play electric. Have at it, but for my circus, I don't want to move in that direction yet.

One of the problems I have is direct experience with gear. I do not get out much. I spend 90% of my time playing and writing and teaching my band how to play the songs. Gear has taken a back seat to that. I don't want to get to where I was back in the heavy metal days, that is turning knobs more than I play music.

OK, you have very specific desires and that is cool. But, why would you even be thinking boutique or Matchless...for those desires.

You would (I believe) be perfectly happy with an amp that will cost you no more than $500 used. (Blues Jr., Silverface Princeton Reverb, Marshall Class 5...) I would first get over the preconceived notions about PCB amps.

Get out and PLAY some amps.

[knuckle]

Gotcha.

I am not opposed to electric as I said, things might eventually turn that way. I just was initially thinking that I might as well get something good while I have the money, not something cheap that will break.

If the consensus is that the modern Fender amps sound good and are reliable, I'm good with that. Often times my preconceived notions are not lined up with reality. So if I get a modern Fender I'll be under the assumption that I'll probably get something good that will last, unless I'm the 1 out of 100 that gets a lemon

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by terrapin

OK, you have very specific desires and that is cool. But, why would you even be thinking boutique or Matchless...for those desires.

You would (I believe) be perfectly happy with an amp that will cost you no more than $500 used. (Blues Jr., Silverface Princeton Reverb, Marshall Class 5...) I would first get over the preconceived notions about PCB amps.

Get out and PLAY some amps.

What Russ said. Again.

[kscobie8]

Originally Posted by knuckle

...
The thing does not have to be 100W, but I don't think I want 5W either. Something like 15-30 and if that's not loud enough, I mic it through the PA.
...

I think you'll find 15-30 watts to be plenty loud enough. Heck, a 5w tube amp can move quite a bit of air. In fact, I'd say if you're thinking of mic'ing it through a PA then I'd go with lower wattage, if only for the sake of not having to blast out your windows to get a good tone.

If you really want to spend money, look into a new hand-wired Vox AC15.


Bel isi,
-kyle

[Badfrog]

If you are just wanting to do this for a little "WTF" factor, then I sure as heck wouldn't worry about spending over a grand on an amp or having to have a PTP tube amp. Like you said, it's just going to be for a little side show anyways.

If you are going to play a gas can guitar or something along those lines, a PTP tube amp is probably going to be a waste. No one in the crowd is going to notice if you play a tube or solid state amp with one of those IMO.

[knuckle]

Well I figure it like this. If I spend the money on a nice handwired amp. I'll have it forever, potentially. And, if I do opt to get a tele in the future, I'll have the amp for it.

But I guess folks do not tend to think like me, as evident by this thread.

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Well I figure it like this. If I spend the money on a nice handwired amp. I'll have it forever, potentially. And, if I do opt to get a tele in the future, I'll have the amp for it.

But I guess folks do not tend to think like me, as evident by this thread.

NOW you are making sense! Yes, get a good well made tube amp, maintain it correctly and you will have a tone friend for life for that TELE I see in your future!!!

Check out the Juke Coda on sale at the top of this ad. It is just like mine and is the best smaller wattage tube amp I have EVER played. It is a bit above your budget, but this amp is BOMB!!!

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...d.php?t=949529

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by knuckle

...I just figured that hand wired would be easily repaired compared to the cost of a whole circuit board. In my head, I'm picturing a nightmare of 500 chips doing the same thing as a handful of diodes, capacitors and resistors. ...

One chip, an integrated circuit, can contain all the circuitry of an entire preamp. So a solid-state amplifier may have a much lower parts count than you imagine.

Here are two photographs of a 50-60 watt solid-state amplifier's circuitry (Peavey Bandit):





Here is a photograph of a '65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue's innards (the chassis on the bottom):



Last is a pair of photographs of a '67 Deluxe Reverb circuitry (no printed circuit board). There is some overlap between the two pictures.



I think you should choose an amplifier based on tone and not on the basis of whether it is a solid-state or tube design. I doubt you will be disappointed with the tube amps you are considering. In terms of overall sound, the amplifier is more important to me than the guitar. I'd rather perform on stage with a very good amplifier and a cheap guitar (assuming its action is good) than with an expensive guitar and a cheap amp.