Beware the pickup “trap.”

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

99%+ guitarists take home their UST equipped guitar and think it sounds good amplified. They don't read the AGF.



I have one guitar with an Element UST and another nearly the same guitar with an HFN. I definitely like the HFN better and in a feedback test yesterday in my living room I did not get much advantage for the UST between these two guitars. A second HFN is on order.



But, since the Element guitar has the light strings it will go today's gig and I know at no point while playing will I be thinking the guitar sounds bad.



I've bought and sold over 100 guitars since getting my first one at age 8 (age 61 as I type).



Warning obsessed people about the dangers of obsession is futile!

Jon, I agree with you. And, since nearly every new acoustic/electric guitar sold around the world includes some sort of UST (Taylor being the exception), I think your argument is solid. USTs are one of the most feedback resistant options. So, USTs and magnetic sound hole pickups could be considered the least common denominator when it comes to amplification.

Yet, so many of us want to improve on that tone and fall into the pickup trap.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

99%+ guitarists take home their UST equipped guitar and think it sounds good amplified. They don't read the AGF.

Hi jon

I doubt it's 99%, and even if it is, they only think it sounds good till they run into a player who has a better sounding rig.

Then they start heading down the rabbit trails of which pickup is best (as if one is better than all others in every guitar, and in every situation).

It's amazing how indifferent audiences are to what pickup is in our rigs. I guess they just want to hear music, or something.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

99%+ guitarists take home their UST equipped guitar and think it sounds good amplified. They don't read the AGF.

I have one guitar with an Element UST and another nearly the same guitar with an HFN. I definitely like the HFN better and in a feedback test yesterday in my living room I did not get much advantage for the UST between these two guitars. A second HFN is on order.

But, since the Element guitar has the light strings it will go today's gig and I know at no point while playing will I be thinking the guitar sounds bad.

I've bought and sold over 100 guitars since getting my first one at age 8 (age 61 as I type).

Warning obsessed people about the dangers of obsession is futile!

AGF is definitely an insanely small portion of the acoustic/gigging world. I think we are all guilty of stressing too much over our tone but I will say that when my guitar isn't sounding full and warm live, it bums me out to the point where it can potentially ruin the show.

I have come to a number of conclusions over the past year, one being that I have spent way too much money searching for the perfect tone. That's not just with acoustic pickups, it's guitar pedals, amps, guitars etc. I currently own a Carr Sportsman amp that's around $3500 new here in Canada (luckily I got it used) and my acoustic guitars have had everything from the Anthem to the Amulet M in them. However, a buddy of mine who I teach with and who is an incredible player, owns a Martin with the Matrix aura system and a Hot Rod Deluxe which is an affordable amp and he consistently gets amazing sounds through both and I am often left tweaking my sound. As a result, I am trying to get out of the mindset of having to have an intricate/100% natural rig in favour of something that consistently sounds good and that I can easily set up with little to no work/tweaking required.

As for the HFN, it's the closest I have been to 100% satisfied with my tone. Unfortunately, I am still struggling a bit with the pickup sounding a bit distant. I am not sure if it's due to the fact that the transducer is elevated but I don't get the same immediate attack that the Amulet M and K&K provide.

[leew3]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

They don't read the AGF.

I believe our work here is done. We have met the enemy and it is us!

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by leew3

I believe our work here is done. We have met the enemy and it is us!

Ha good one..

[jonfields45]

I played my gig today and genuinely thought how nice my Mi-Si UST sounded... I know at home carefully A-B'ed against the HFN that the HFN is superior. But the HFN did not go to the gig and get the good feelings.

I am as obsessive as anyone on the AGF, but not about only my guitar louder.

I don't know how many acoustic electric guitars are sold every year but I suspect it must be in the order of one million (in any case a number that would dwarf the total number of people who check out the AGF). I go out and check out my competition here in the Lehigh Valley (restaurants, bars, etc.) and have yet to see anyone with anything more sophisticated than a factory pickup. The only ToneDextor or out board Aura I've witnessed has been mine.

I respectfully disagree with LJGUITAR and think we are a minority that could also be well served by the drugs they give to people who don't step on sidewalk cracks or repeatedly check the door to make sure it's locked :~).

[Marty C]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

This is a pet peeve of mine, I see it a lot. It's fairly easy to tell just by the sound, since some of the demos I see sound a *lot* better than I know the pickup actually sounds. I suspect reviewers aren't trying to deceive, they just don't realize that even a tiny bleed from a vocal mic is enough to make a pickup sound a lot better.

The same challenge happens when you audition a pickup at home - unless you are playing so loud that you absolutely can't hear the direct guitar sound (in which case, the neighbors are probably calling :-) ), you're being fooled by hearing a blend of the direct guitar and pickup. Even knowing this, I've caught myself when auditioning a new pickup - plug it in, play a little, and "wow, this thing sounds good". Then I record it or play back thru a looper, and it's "uh-oh, what happened?". This is one reason I try to remember to almost always audition pickups and do things like tweak EQ and so on with a looper, so I'm hearing the actual pickup, not a blend of natural sound+pickup.

Yes, this. I get everything dialed in at home in my bonus room and think, “best sound ever”! Then I loop the guitar for sound check and think, “this Looper sounds horrible.”

[GTR1960]

I'm new to putting pickups in an acoustic guitar. I have a cheap guitar that I put a sound hole LR Baggs in. It's not a great sound by any means over a PA. I purchased a Martin D28 last December and I'm thinking of putting a good pickup system in it. I'm not sure what all this lingo is though.. UST and HFN. What does that mean?

I was told by the guy that almost sold me his Huss & Dalton, that he likes the K&K mini with the floor preamp before the (might've been A Tonedexter) amp/ PA. I've been researching on AGF and have seen some favorable post about Shertler M-AG6 with the S-Mic.

I'd like to get a good system that sounds more like the natural sound of the guitar, I can't always use a microphone in every situation on stage.

Help ?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by GTR1960

I'd like to get a good system that sounds more like the natural sound of the guitar, I can't always use a microphone in every situation on stage.

This is what almost everyone wants. There's even a stock phrase here for it: "just like my guitar but louder". For the most part, it doesn't exist, tho you can come pretty close by using ToneDexter. Depending on your volume needs and playing style, a dual source system with an internal mic is also a good (tho imperfect) choice. Some people have found the Holy Grail - for them - but it's different systems for different people.

[alnico5]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Isn't this where someone posts get a K&K?

Yes. This where I say I'm happy with the K&K. Any more tomfoolery looking and money spent would be a waste of my time.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

This is what almost everyone wants. There's even a stock phrase here for it: "just like my guitar but louder". For the most part, it doesn't exist, tho you can come pretty close by using ToneDexter. Depending on your volume needs and playing style, a dual source system with an internal mic is also a good (tho imperfect) choice. Some people have found the Holy Grail - for them - but it's different systems for different people.

I agree Doug. I’ll be trying the newest version of the AER AK-15 this week. I do like a mic and undersaddle combination.

[Woodstock School Of Music]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

AGF is definitely an insanely small portion of the acoustic/gigging world. I think we are all guilty of stressing too much over our tone but I will say that when my guitar isn't sounding full and warm live, it bums me out to the point where it can potentially ruin the show.

Only a small percentage of customers that walk into my shop care about pickup types/brands as much as we do on AGF. I care but I realize in the real world I'm in the minority. I do try to educate them but in the real world very few people want to spend $300 and up for a pickup/preamp setup

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

AGF is definitely an insanely small portion of the acoustic/gigging world. I think we are all guilty of stressing too much over our tone but I will say that when my guitar isn't sounding full and warm live, it bums me out to the point where it can potentially ruin the show.
.

Yes this is why ive abandoned sbt ust pups. the mags are just
more consistant letting me able to concentrate on my show and not my tone.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Yes this is why ive abandoned sbt ust pups. the mags are just
more consistant letting me able to concentrate on my show and not my tone.

I wish I could find a way to like the tone of magnetic pickups. I think paired with a SBT, they can sound great but on their own, I just don't like them. With that said, they do seem to be the most consistent sounding pickup so I understand why people love them.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I wish I could find a way to like the tone of magnetic pickups. I think paired with a SBT, they can sound great but on their own, I just don't like them. With that said, they do seem to be the most consistent sounding pickup so I understand why people love them.

There's something about the way a mag pickup responds to the touch that I've always found appealing. Like you, however, I find the mag tone disappointing. I suspect that touch response and feedback rejection are the factors which most appeal to the many good players who favor mag pickups.