Deep bass and low mids with crisp, clear balanced highs and trebles — what guitar?

[ataylor]

Big post to catch up on suggestions.

Originally Posted by jwellsy

Sounds to me like your describing a D35. I lusted for a D35 for years and wanted to get one before I retired. Then I ordered a custom carbon fiber Emerald X30 with fanned frets. Fan frets aren't about comfort or ease of playing. It's about having different scale lengths. Strings with longer scale length have more tension and higher projection and definition. That's why bass guitars have such long necks.

Anyway, since getting my Emerald fan fret X30 my gas for a D35 is totally gone, plus I never have to worry about swings in temperature or humidity.

You know, I wouldn't be against a carbon-fiber guitar at some point. I would love one in a super-traditional form factor though. Not the ones that have a wood veneer — I actually like the carbon fiber look — but I'm thinking something like "what if Collings made a D1 out of carbon fiber?"

Originally Posted by TBman

Avalon. Blows my Guilds out of the water.

Not super familiar with Avalon. I'll have a look.

Originally Posted by Sequimite

I thought D-28 immediately because I used to play with a guy who had one. I couldn't even hear my little LG0 but noticing the midrange hole I picked up a Kay archtop which was mostly midrange and it worked great with the D-28.

Yeah, D-28 was one of those that came to my mind as well.

Originally Posted by Mark L

McIlroy AJ or A sizes (equivalent to Lowden O and F). Superb guitars in any woods. Fingerstyle and flatpick.

Collings DS in either 1mahogany or 2RW designations. 12 fret slope shoulder dreadnoughts. Spec is 1 13/16” nut but they are out there in 1 3/4”. Many people, even here, have not played them ever. They are superb instruments for exactly what you’re looking for. The DS2H plain jane model is often an eye opening revelation on first strum, pluck or run. Great for fingerstyle as well as flatpick. (I saw one used on reverb for 2600, would snap that in a second but my closet is full).

Collings 0001A for a smaller body but very full sound.

For more money look into Borges OM or 000 (very hard to find), Franklin OM (a few for sale here and there) and Circa OM, 000 or D. No disappointments there, but pricey.

If you’ve really got money (above 8-10 k) there are slews of freshly minted slightly used customs out there. Lots of used Kostals and Greenfields for example.
But $$$$.

On a budget, I’d look into Eastman for sure, and possibly the D35 and D28 if it needs to be a Martin. Or for that matter, they have an Authentic 12 fret slope or 2 out there. Yuuge!

Mention of the Collings CJ above is also a good idea. Collings SJ is really balanced an full sounding, but I’m not sure it will satisfy your urge for “bass”. Try one.

How about a well designed baritone tuned “up” to C? Emerald carbon fiber.

Ever tried tuning down a whole step? Maybe what you have will already be there?
What kind of music did you say you played?

Good luck!

Lots of great suggestions, the majority of which I haven't played. I'll check 'em out!

I play folksy stuff, mostly finger picking and strumming. I don't play with a pick much, I like to pick with bare fingers and strum with nails.

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Guild jumbo - maple (F-50/JF-30) brings out the highs, mahogany (F-48 - a bit rare as it was only produced for about three years during the '70s) warms up the tone in the upper mids, rosewood (F-50R) is the Holy Grail IME - college bud had one that was an absolute killer...

Originally Posted by Perchman

First thing I thought when I read the OP’s post was that my Guild D55 is EXACTLY what he is describing. I’ve always said it sounds like a grand piano. That maple jumbo sounds amazing too.

I've only ever looked at the Guild 12-string jumbos but it sounds like I need to look into the 6-strings based on feedback!

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

A Martinaylor?

I've been told they're called Collings

Originally Posted by tomiv9

Bourgeois guitars

Originally Posted by hotroad

Any Bourgeois dread will do that easily. Very clear, shockingly balanced in all frequencies, strong bass and crisp trebles and mids that can sing out. Don't overlook Bourgeois.

Of the small-shop traditional-leaning brands, Bourgeois is the one I've played the least. I think I've only played one, maybe two. I love the look of their guitars though.

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Give up on going acoustic. Get a cheap acoustic guitar, plug in and EQ the heck out of it.

Nah, I love organic acoustic tone too much. If I were to start playing live shows again, I'd definitely geek out on stuff.

Originally Posted by Roksbug

I have focused more on rosewood and koa for my last few guitars. But the video Brucebub posted of the maple Guild as well as the Mary Chapin Carpenter maple Greven have me rethinking this.
I'm not really sure why I was against maple guitars for so many years. Maybe my ears have matured.

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Great clip comparing 3 excellent maple jumbo's.

Gibson SJ-200 - Guild F-55M and Taylor 618.

They're all good ... but I lean to the Gibson in this comparison.

Yeah, I don't think of maple much either but yeah, these videos are good reference. I also played a maple Taylor a couple years back that was fantastic.

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

The post title brought these to mind:
Martin J-40
Gibson J-200
Martin J-35
Martin J-41
Taylor 12 fret

All good suggestions — thanks!

Originally Posted by Nctom

For some reason(s) I think you may need to move away from the Martin, Taylor,and particularly Eastman production models and concentrate on the Irish guitars or custom builds. It may be easier, and cheaper, to keep the ones you have and put the dream guitars back in your dreams. If that is not possible you might look into luthier-built guitars.

Maybe so. I do prefer more traditional aesthetics — it seems like some of the modern-voiced Irish guitars don't really check that box for me.

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Hi AT...

Well, you could have Mr. Fairbanks build you...or buy one of his used...an Advanced Jumbo or J-185 body in Rosewood and either Sitka or Euro spruce.

Or...A Martin 0000M style in Rosewood, or a Martin J-40, or a Martin OM-42 or 000-42. Or a Martin D-28 Marquis series.

Or...going way off into left field used, a late 90's/early 2000's Breedlove Ed Gerhard Signature Model jumbo in Sitka/EIR...talk about piano like bass...the whole guitar is piano like in response across all the strings.

Good call. I've thought about getting another guitar from Dale. I know I want to someday — it would be a lot of fun.

I've also thought a rosewood Martin of some sort might be cool. A little while ago, I was thinking it would be cool to get a custom pre-war-style 0-21 made.

Funny you mention Breedlove — that got me to thinking that I wish they still made those traditional-looking Revival models. Those looked really nice.

Originally Posted by jkilgour2000

I agree with the Martin J-40 suggestions, and would like to add the Martin D-41.

I need to play one of the new 40-style Martins. The D-41 in particular seems to get rave reviews here.

Originally Posted by songman2

Larrivee, any model.

Originally Posted by Shadowfox

At the Risk of sounding like I'm beating a dead horse lol,

I think a Furch Dread or RS would do that. Maybe even a Jumbo

Originally Posted by Bain

Well after all that the Furch GA works for me , no matter what people say...

I'm not too familiar with Furch. I'll check 'em out.

Originally Posted by GeneralDreedle

I actually got the guitar in this video below used from a fellow member. I love this guitar- the video doesn't do justice to how the bass notes sound, really deep. The lower bout I guess is deep, and that affects the sound.
Anyways, I don't know how many they made but if you come across a recent Gibson Nick Lucas L100 Maple you should consider it.

I've thought a Nick Lucas style might be cool to have sometime, that or something very similar like Waterloo's WL-K model.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi ataylor

Start saving money and playing lots of guitars. Keep saving money, then when you find THE guitar…buy it.

I'm serious about the suggestion. I spent between 5-6 years searching for a match to my Olson to be a complimentary but different instrument. I played thousands of guitars (at length).

Ultimately I ended up commissioning a guitar (after playing more than half dozen recent guitars the builder had built). I had enough money saved for the downpayment, and since I was in the habit of saving, I had the money saved to pay it off well before it was constructed.

My Olson is now 26 years old, and my Bashkin is 15 years old. Still the best guitars I've ever owned.

Very good advice, and actually pretty similar to how I already approach finding and buying a guitar! Most recently it was a 5–6 year quest for a mahogany Martin-style dreadnought that ended with Santa bringing a standard D-18. I was willing and prepared to spend more, but the D-18 just had what I was looking for at the time. I'm still very happy with it.

I do like the idea of having something built this time around — I certainly love my Fairbanks and it would be fun to do something like that again.

Originally Posted by Frostie

Just in case ...

https://youtu.be/9Q-EyTb-S9Q

I'm not very familiar with Northwood guitars. Thanks for the link!

[ataylor]

Another post from the OP here...

I will say that after playing my Fairbanks a bit the last couple days, it does a lot of what I was asking about in the initial post and does it better than I was probably describing. It's got volume to spare and is incredibly responsive. As I mentioned, it's on the dry and fundamental side, but that lends itself to a lot of clarity when I'm playing with a light touch, particularly when finger picking.

Despite having this fantastic guitar and a couple others I value just as highly, I don't think my guitar-buying days will ever truly be over. It's a fun hobby, and I enjoy the artistic and aesthetic aspects of the instruments as much as I enjoy playing and creating music with them as tools. As such, I expect I'll end up with another guitar sooner or later, but if my purchasing history is any indication it may be another year or two (or five!)

There are lots of great suggestions here so far to fuel that quest as I take my sweet time dreaming up what's next. Don't let this post — which might otherwise sound like a conclusion to this chapter — stop anyone from any further ideas

[ataylor]

OP weighing in again...

A few weeks ago, I started this thread with the following:

Originally Posted by ataylor

I was playing my 18-month-old Martin D-18 back and forth with my nearly-15-year-old Taylor 210 recently and found myself wondering what the hybrid of both guitars would be.

I love the deeper, slightly compressed, vintage-inspired tones of the Martin. But I also love the immediate, balanced, crispness of the Taylor.

Now, let's fast forward to sometime towards the end of last week, when I noticed I had a pack of Elixir strings lying around. I've tried a handful of strings on my D-18 in the year and a half or so that I've owned it — Martin and D'Addario, medium and light gauges, coated/treated and uncoated — but never Elixir.

A thought came to my head. The thought went something like this: "Hmmm. If putting nickel bronze D'Addario strings on my Taylor warms it up nicely, what might putting crisp, snappy Elixir strings on my Martin do?"

There was only one way to find out.

The D'Addario EXP phosphor bronze light gauge strings came off and the Elixir equivalents went on. I tuned the guitar up to pitch, strummed the G-chord, and...

I'm not going to say it's exactly the sound I had in my mind when I typed out the post to start this thread, but I'll tell you what — it's pretty close, and remains that way several days later now that the strings have settled in a bit (which I find isn't as drastic a difference anyway with Elixirs).

The lows and mids are still present — deep and rich — but there is a noticeable crispness across the six strings, particularly in the high mids and trebles. It really sounded like I was able to take what I was enjoying about my Taylor at the time and apply it to the D-18 without losing the latter guitar's tonal identity.

In fact, if anything, the D-18 has a little more overall volume and sounds ever so slightly more like it — and the dozens of examples I auditioned in years prior at various stores and shops — did when equipped with medium gauge strings. Maybe the Elixir strings have a slight increase in tension and mass because of the coating?

So far, it's a winning combination, and one that now makes perfect sense as an inverse of typical preference for nickel bronze on the Taylor — which has the opposite effect of de-emphasizing the guitar's brightness and crispness in the mids and trebles.

Anyway, it was a fun and interesting discovery that I thought was worth the update here. Thanks for humoring me.

[asobi]

Originally Posted by ataylor

I’m wondering if there’s something that has piano-like depth to the low end and some dimensional middle to top-end shimmer. Am I describing rosewood? Is it finally time to try a new flavor after almost exclusively playing mahogany and its cousins for 15–20 years? Am I describing a modern take on vintage? Collings?

Just bought a Collings SJ in Koa and you should give it a whirl for sure. I posted my NGD impressions last week and doesn't sound dissimilar to what you seem to be seeking. In my search, an equal number of people favored maple SJ instead of Koa, so YMMV. If you seek a deeper bass response, perhaps try their CJ

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by ataylor

I love the deeper, slightly compressed, vintage-inspired tones of the Martin. But I also love the immediate, balanced, crispness of the Taylor.

What guitar would have the best mix of both sets of characteristics?

My Fairbanks does to a degree, but while it has both depth and clarity, it’s also a very dry, focused, fundamental tone consistent with what one might expect from an old J-35 or J-45.

This is a guitar you can find in the back of a car that seats 6, gets 110 mpg and goes from 0-60 in 1.7 seconds.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by ataylor

I was playing my 18-month-old Martin D-18 back and forth with my nearly-15-year-old Taylor 210 recently and found myself wondering what the hybrid of both guitars would be.

I love the deeper, slightly compressed, vintage-inspired tones of the Martin. But I also love the immediate, balanced, crispness of the Taylor.

What guitar would have the best mix of both sets of characteristics?

My Fairbanks does to a degree, but while it has both depth and clarity, it’s also a very dry, focused, fundamental tone consistent with what one might expect from an old J-35 or J-45.

I’m wondering if there’s something that has piano-like depth to the low end and some dimensional middle to top-end shimmer. Am I describing rosewood? Is it finally time to try a new flavor after almost exclusively playing mahogany and its cousins for 15–20 years? Am I describing a modern take on vintage? Collings? Goodall? Something else? Am I just going a bit crazy with cabin fever?

I haven’t shopped around for guitars much in the last 12–18 months and was very much focused on the traditional D-18 tone for a number of years prior to that. Now I’m slowly starting to wonder what’s next, if anything.

I’m in no hurry — I pace my guitar buying in terms of years, not weeks or months. The planning and scheming and researching and dreaming and window shopping and all that is half the fun anyway.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Martin J-40 checks those boxes.

[bufflehead]

I guess I don't get the question. You want to improve on the sound of a D-18? Is that even theoretically possible?

Best way I know of to accomplish your goal is to start with a D-18 and throw some Retros on it.

[ataylor]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

I guess I don't get the question. You want to improve on the sound of a D-18? Is that even theoretically possible?

Best way I know of to accomplish your goal is to start with a D-18 and throw some Retros on it.

The original question was less about improving a D-18 and more about wondering what guitars have the characteristics I was looking for. My best guess is that a rosewood dreadnought or OM would tend to check those boxes, but I was curious what other suggestions would be.

That being said, I have a couple more recent posts above where I followed up — one from today where I mentioned that Elixirs on the D-18 add some of that crispness and clarity I was noticing in the Taylor and also seem to have added a little more volume than the D’Addario equivalents that were on the guitar prior.

[ataylor]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

This is a guitar you can find in the back of a car that seats 6, gets 110 mpg and goes from 0-60 in 1.7 seconds.

So it’s in my Honda Odyssey?

[mercy]

If you want good trebles forget Martin. H&D is a better form of Martin. Santa Cruz is a better H&D for what youve described. Perhaps your description means something else to you than to me.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by mercy

If you want good trebles forget Martin. H&D is a better form of Martin. Santa Cruz is a better H&D for what youve described. Perhaps your description means something else to you than to me.

I don’t really agree with this as a progression... but I don’t have the bank account requirements or stable trade option for a good assessment of H&D, or SCGC, But low fat lows are not what I’ve experienced in the 3 (H&D)to about 10 (SCGC) times i’ve played one of those.

So I’ll specify a little more why I think the Martin J-40 or similarly built guitars hits the nail on the head...
Narrow waist- not a dread, Helps clarify mids and highs while controlling overtones.
Deep lower bout- 4 7/8 inches deep, this is where the bass rolls around and warms up the room.
A guitar with these specs, will probably be closer to what you are looking for.