Grover Rotomatics to Sta-Tite tuners

[mark375]

I have a Sigma acoustic guitar with Grover Rotomatics tuners like in the example image:

https://images.app.goo.gl/UmpVgirbekw2hr5F8

They work great but I don't like how much they weight an also prefer vintage look. I would like to install some open Sta-Tite tuners like these:

https://images.app.goo.gl/8DMjvzcFmdLadb4WA

Can I install them with one screw hole that is already on the guitar without drilling the second one? Will there be any stability issues or not?

[pieterh]

I wouldn’t recommend it, the tuners aren’t secured by a nut and washer on the front face of the headstock like sealed units often are. What is more, there is no guarantee that the screw position on the Grovers matches the lower screw hole on the Sta-tites.

I say be brave and drill a very small pilot hole for the screws - it doesn’t have to be deep (shouldn’t be!).

I do recommend the Sta-tites on the other hand! I swapped out the old and tired stock tuners on my old Guild D35 for Sta-tites and have never regretted it. I was fortunate though as the old holes lined up perfectly.

[Naboz]

Mark,
I don't know about the weight issue, but it has always been (almost) automatic for me to change tuners to Sta-Tites when I purchase a used guitar. They're economical, look good, perform well, and have a nice ratio. (Gotohs are my favorite when I can find the right set!)
If the previous tuner holes don't match up, just fill the hole; my tech at Elderly Instruments suggested either a piece of matching wood (necks are usually mahogany these days, and many wood pallets are made of some type of mahogany)--that you can whittle down or use a pencil sharpener to get the size you need, OR--use a tooth pick, and color it with stain or furniture marker before inserting with wood glue. Both of these inserts need to be pre-tested so it will fill the hole and sit flush (usually means taking the sharp tip off--you're almost making a mini dowel, but it still needs some taper like the screw that was in there). Then color the little plug, drop some glue in the hole, and clean the squeeze-out as you make sure to seat it flush.
Oh, for the new screws' holes, I use a very sharp SMALL nail (compare screw to nail diameter), and push it in to get the hole about half-way--the screw will need to "bite" the rest of the way. It makes me shake and sweat thinking of putting a drill motor that close to a guitar!
Probably way more info than you asked for
I've done this on 7 or 8 guitars. And ask me how many people have noticed;
no one! Not many other than us super geeks will even inspect the back of the headstock!

[Brucebubs]

Grover Rotomatics are designed for a 10.0mm hole in the headstock, the Sta-Tites are designed to fit a smaller 8.75mm hole.

Rotomatics use a washer and screw-in bushing, Sta-Tites use a push-fit bushing.

There's no way a push-fit bushing designed for a 8.75mm hole will fit in a 10.0mm hole - so you will need a set of conversion bushings.



Stewmac sells them; https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-ha...r-bushing.html

[Naboz]

Ah, and there's that.
Thanks, Bruce, for pointing that out--otherwise my advice isn't worth the paper it's printed on

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Grover Rotomatics are designed for a 10.0mm hole in the headstock, the Sta-Tites are designed to fit a smaller 8.75mm hole.

Rotomatics use a washer and screw-in bushing, Sta-Tites use a push-fit bushing.

There's no way a push-fit bushing designed for a 8.75mm hole will fit in a 10.0mm hole - so you will need a set of conversion bushings.



Stewmac sells them; https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-ha...r-bushing.html

Good advice - it reminded me that I needed the converter bushings for my Guild too. It was a few years ago now so it had slipped my mind!

[mark375]

Thank you guys! Yes, I am aware I need conversion bushings. The main concern is will it work with only one hole screw.

https://youtu.be/_ZRIbvN_urU?t=497

From this video it looks like the lower screw would fit. I checked and both Rotomatics and Sta-Tite have 10mm distance from the bottom screw hole to the headstock big hole.

I will try with one screw hole. If it not works then I will drill second one.

Which one you recommend Grover, Gotoh, Wilkinson or maybe Martin sells his own?

[bls82261]

Originally Posted by mark375

Thank you guys! Yes, I am aware I need conversion bushings. The main concern is will it work with only one hole screw.

https://youtu.be/_ZRIbvN_urU?t=497

From this video it looks like the lower screw would fit. I checked and both Rotomatics and Sta-Tite have 10mm distance from the bottom screw hole to the headstock big hole.

I will try with one screw hole. If it not works then I will drill second one.

Which one you recommend Grover, Gotoh, Wilkinson or maybe Martin sells his own?

I have both the Grover and Gotoh. Out of those two I would choose the Grovers. Make sure you get the 18:1. I think they also make 14:1



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Grover-V97-...ss!22655!US!-1

[mark375]

Originally Posted by bls82261

I have both the Grover and Gotoh. Out of those two I would choose the Grovers. Make sure you get the 18:1. I think they also make 14:1



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Grover-V97-...ss!22655!US!-1

Ok. thank you. Do you have a Gotoh SE770? Their ratio is 1:15 and they are available at my place at the moment. Are they much worse than the Grovers 1:18? What are your feelings?

[gr81dorn]

They'll stay secure and work fine if you only screw in the bottom screw. There's not much play once the bushing is on there and if it's screwed in tight, it literally can't move.

That being said, I'd drill the top hole and just install them right if you like the look and functionality.

[pdx]

I installed two sets of Statites on 70’s Martins a few months ago and I haven’t drilled the second hole yet. Everything is fine.

[L20A]

I asked my tech about making this change on my Guild D-55.

He said that both screws would need to be used. That is why there are tow holes in the tuners.
I decided to stay with the old tuners rather than drill more holes in the guitar.

[tnvol]

I've been thinking about putting these on my HD-28.

[John Arnold]

With one screw, you really need the threaded collar to have a secure installation. This is because you are installing in a straight 10mm hole that does not support the post in the back of the peghead. Step-drilled holes are better when the tuner has press-in bushings.

Gotoh does make an open back tuner with a threaded collar, but it costs a bit more than the SE700 (my favorite tuner, BTW).

https://www.ebay.com/i/132589848122?...r=431932458371

Grover Statite 18:1 tuners are better quality than the 14:1 version, but it has nothing to do with the ratio. The 14:1 tuners are cheaply made, and it shows. They imitate the construction of the original prewar Grovers, but the pressed steel baseplate is thinner, the gears are poorly machined and most unforgiveable, the buttons are installed backwards.

IMHO, equating a high ratio with quality is missing the boat. For many decades, 12:1 was the standard ratio for guitar tuners, and it functions just fine.
IMHO, ratios higher than 15:1 just introduce more wasted motion.

[Rudy4]

Grover ratios are a side-story and not important. The real factor is to make sure you purchase the cast base plate V97 tuners and NOT the stamped back plate V98s. John Arnold has outlined the differences well.

The V97s are twice the price, but the V98s aren't worth purchasing at any price.

I love the V98s and have used dozens of sets of them, although I usually pull the butter bean cast buttons and replace them with ebony or black plastic buttons. They look better and are considerably lighter after the button switch.

Filling the existing hole and drilling for a new one is really simple. You can easily switch back to the original tuners if you want to, but you won't be doing that.