Leo Kottke bass damping technique?

[jthorpe]

I've seen on a few websites references to the above technique, it appears Kottke has his own signature way of muting/damping the bass whilst still maintaining a floating hand position!

Could anyone add any clarity to this? Any examples and/or videos of Kottke employing this?

Thanks in advance!

J

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by jthorpe

I've seen on a few websites references to the above technique, it appears Kottke has his own signature way of muting/damping the bass whilst still maintaining a floating hand position!

Could anyone add any clarity to this? Any examples and/or videos of Kottke employing this?

Thanks in advance!

J

Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJthGsBB5YQ

[ljguitar]

Hi jt...

The three primary sources of muting for a finger stylist are:

• Partially or fully lifting the chord with left hand so the strings 'stop' sustaining (are fully or partially dampened)
• Dropping fingertips on the plucking hand right back onto the string they just plucked
• Partially or fully laying the meat of the outside (toward the pinky) of the picking/plucking hand on the strings - usually either near the saddle or right on top of it.

Leo does all three...

[jthorpe]

Seems like it's a rather intuitive thing! I'm just looking for a way to play with a floating hand instead of resting the heel to dampen the alternate bass!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jthorpe

Seems like it's a rather intuitive thing! I'm just looking for a way to play with a floating hand instead of resting the heel to dampen the alternate bass!

HI jt...

I teach fingerstyle and I'm not sure I'd call damping intuitive, but damping techniques are pretty easy to learn.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by jthorpe

Seems like it's a rather intuitive thing! I'm just looking for a way to play with a floating hand instead of resting the heel to dampen the alternate bass!

You can't really do both.
If the hand is really "floating" then what are you going to use to damp the strings? (It's a different sound and technique from muting, which is killing the sound altogether, and can be done with either hand.)
I guess if you want to keep the picking hand up above the strings (classical style), then some article of clothing or something attached to your wrist could do it...

But the above video shows that Kottke (at least) is damping with his hand in the usual way - touching with the heel of the hand, or the fleshy pinky side, as larry says. This needn't inhibit the picking hand in any way, except it means you're more or less fixed to one place along the length of the string (because the damping point needs to be right over the saddle, if the strings are not to be muted entirely). Where did you read that he has some other way of doing it?

[Howard Emerson]

Here is a fairly deep dissection of Kottke's 'Air Proofing' technique, etc.

http://www.guitartabsexplorer.com/ko...ing_ii-tab.php

HE

[Smilemaker]

I saw him perform recently. My first thought the next morning was, "wow, did I really hear that much sound come from one man with one instrument?" He is amazing.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Here is a fairly deep dissection of Kottke's 'Air Proofing' technique, etc.

http://www.guitartabsexplorer.com/ko...ing_ii-tab.php

HE

OK, that talks about a common fret-hand technique with left-hand thumb on 6th. I didn't think of that option.
Normally the thumb would be used for either fretting (eg on 2) or muting, but a little adjustment of it -moving nearer the nut - will give a damping effect on the open bass E.

I can see how that might be useful, although personally I find it more efficient to use my picking hand for that (it's possible to damp only the 6th if you want). Obviously the left thumb technique allows the floating right-hand, but for me that doesn't offer enough advantages. (And in any case, I don't see Kottke's right hand in what I'd call a floating position in that video - looks to me like he's damping with his right, whether or not he's also using his left.)

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by JonPR

OK, that talks about a common fret-hand technique with left-hand thumb on 6th. I didn't think of that option.
Normally the thumb would be used for either fretting (eg on 2) or muting, but a little adjustment of it -moving nearer the nut - will give a damping effect on the open bass E.

Hi Jon...

Good damping is definitely a two-hand-dance when Leo get's it rolling.

[Howard Emerson]

If anyone here is really serious about learning Leo Kottke's stuff, here is where you need to go:

http://www.tabpigs.org/core.htm

The Tab Pigs started out as a bunch of Kottke nut cases that all shared a love of Leo's playing & compositions.

If you need the hairs to be split further, you'll need a large microscope.

By the way, one of the the Pigs, 'Hoink' is a member here, and hopefully he'll chime in at some point. I've done a couple of house concerts at his home, and besides being a great guy, he's a Kottke basket case.

HE

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Jon...

Good damping is definitely a two-hand-dance when Leo get's it rolling.

Sure - I just like to call the usual fret-hand action "muting", because it's a different tonal effect from the right-hand "damping" (even though that commonly comes under the term "palm-muting", which is a different thing IMO).
The right-hand action (resting on the saddle) is about softening the tone, as well as shortening the note to some extent.
The fret-hand action, normally, is just about shortening the notes, by releasing finger pressure on a fretted note, or touching a ringing string to stop it.
But more advanced players like Leo, I'm sure, can - in addition - make use of spare fingers (or thumb) on the fret hand to perform a similar damping action to the right, by a light pressure near the nut on an open string to soften the tone.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Sure - I just like to call the usual fret-hand action "muting", because it's a different tonal effect from the right-hand "damping" (even though that commonly comes under the term "palm-muting", which is a different thing IMO).

Hi Jon…

If I can hear the 'note' then I consider it damping, and if not then it's muted - but when I'm playing and mixing the styles, I don't think about them…I just play.

Muting, partial muting, dampening, etc. are great tools to master.

[frankhond]

His thumb does this thing - right after plucking it drops back down on the string. Also it can do a rest stroke where it bounces back up, damping both. Part of what makes that work is the curved thumb that he has.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Jon…

If I can hear the 'note' then I consider it damping, and if not then it's muted

Right, me too.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

- but when I'm playing and mixing the styles, I don't think about them…I just play.

Right, me too.

It just helps to be clear what we're talking about when we explain sounds and techniques that are quite close to each other.
(Yeah I get a bit pedantic about that )