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  #121  
Old 01-16-2020, 09:55 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
I'll have to give solid state amps another go at the guitar store. Are you talking about solid state amps with modeling technology or just solid state?

Wow - this thread really came alive over the past day. Good stuff.
With modeling... although some now model the amps with analog circuits as opposed to digital modeling.
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  #122  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:00 AM
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To clarify we should keep in mind that there is a big distinction between Solid State analog circuitry, and DSP (Digital Signal Processing i.e. "modeling")

And to be sure both have advanced and will continue to advance.

When looking for an inexpensive practice amp 3 years ago with Silent headphone ability, SS was the obvious choice (mainly because of no spk load issues) I chose an Orange Crush.



That said I am not certain that what is going on in this thread is so much closed mindedness, as simply reacting to the very premature and basically fictional pronouncement of RIP, as per the title and some few posts.

As I posted earlier my new tube amp REVV D20 (which I will try to post a review and video sample ) is a tube amp with DSP modeling as an integrated option. And I would guess is far more likely to be representative of "the future" and one evolutionary hybrid branch (option) that will continue, as opposed to simply flowers at the funeral of tube amps

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  #123  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
I'll have to give solid state amps another go at the guitar store. Are you talking about solid state amps with modeling technology or just solid state?
Both!

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  #124  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
To clarify we should keep in mind that there is a big distinction between Solid State analog circuitry, and DSP (Digital Signal Processing i.e. "modeling")

And to be sure both have advanced and will continue to advance.

When looking for an inexpensive practice amp 3 years ago with Silent headphone ability, SS was the obvious choice (mainly because of no spk load issues) I chose an Orange Crush.



That said I am not certain that what is going on in this thread is so much closed mindedness, as simply reacting to the very premature and basically fictional pronouncement of RIP, as per the title and some few posts.

As I posted earlier my new tube amp REVV D20 (which I will try to post a review and video sample ) is a tube amp with DSP modeling as an integrated option. And I would guess is far more likely to be representative of "the future" and one evolutionary hybrid branch (option) that will continue, as opposed to simply flowers at the funeral of tube amps

I get your point, but anything which doesn't use tubes is solid state. DSP's are a subset of solid state.
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  #125  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
No doubt. Tube amps can't make "tube-like" sounds. They can only make tube amp sounds.

Personally, I don't want "tube-like" sounds. I want tube amp sounds.
Yes, but good modelers today can sound like 15 or more tube amps, not just the one tube amp.
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  #126  
Old 01-17-2020, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
I get your point, but anything which doesn't use tubes is solid state. DSP's are a subset of solid state.
Yes DSPs utilise solid state circuitry. But the terms are not automatically interchangeable
Because the reverse is not true, which is my point. You can have all analog solid state circuits that have no DSP going on . You can have all analog solid state amps that use no DSP Modeling. You can have all solid state or tube amps that that use analog signal processing for modeling . So being clear about what we are talking about helps move the conversation forward.

And You can have Tube amps that also have DSP or analog processing modeling going on. That can sound like more than one amp

All of which as I have repeatedly said is likely to push tube technology further into future and makes the RIP notion a bit ludicrous.
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  #127  
Old 01-31-2020, 06:29 PM
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Interesting video with some opinions on amp builders:

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  #128  
Old 02-01-2020, 08:59 AM
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I think a lot of this also depends on which tube amp you are comparing to which modeler and in what setting.

Up until last week I was firmly in the modeler camp as my Katana head through my Marshall cabinet speaker setup was on par with my Marshall tube amp for the volumes I can play it at.

Last week I picked up a Tone King Falcon Grande combo and the difference is pretty strong. Even mixing and matching using each amp to drive the other cabinet the Tone King is nicer in every combination although I need to use the attenuator to really bring the best out of it in my setting which I haven't been able to do with my Marshall amp.

Of course that's running a $2k amp against a $349 head. I am curious how the comparison would go against one of the higher end modelers.
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  #129  
Old 02-01-2020, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
Interesting video with some opinions on amp builders:
Yes interesting and actually this video has a dedicated thread on another forum which is 12 pages and going.

And even though one could argue that "well these guys build tube amps so what else are they going to say?" But I think what they are saying actually reflects not only what is happening but also what the customers like, use, buy, and are doing.
And that is the customers are buying it all and doing it all. Some are all digital, some are all tube, some are all SS. Some use multiple options for different applications, some like me now have the option to use hybrid tube DSP units, in fact one of two hybrid units the interviewer mentions is what I now have , (although he mistakenly calls it a REVV (G) 20 ,,,it is a D 20

I thought another interesting point made was, Which is "actually" more simple to use
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  #130  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Yes interesting and actually this video has a dedicated thread on another forum which is 12 pages and going.

And even though one could argue that "well these guys build tube amps so what else are they going to say?" But I think what they are saying actually reflects not only what is happening but also what the customers like, use, buy, and are doing.
And that is the customers are buying it all and doing it all. Some are all digital, some are all tube, some are all SS. Some use multiple options for different applications, some like me now have the option to use hybrid tube DSP units, in fact one of two hybrid units the interviewer mentions is what I now have , (although he mistakenly calls it a REVV (G) 20 ,,,it is a D 20

I thought another interesting point made was, Which is "actually" more simple to use
Agree for the most part, but many modelers are as simple as a tube amp. The Katana amps and Yamaha THR amps (I actually have both.) just involve playing with nobs... although they can be greatly customized through optional apps.
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  #131  
Old 02-01-2020, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
Agree for the most part, but many modelers are as simple as a tube amp. The...Yamaha THR amps...just involve playing with nobs... although they can be greatly customized through optional apps.
Yes, but for me to get a sound remotely close to my tube amp with my THR10x, I have to use the THReditor software.
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  #132  
Old 02-01-2020, 07:26 PM
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Yes, but for me to get a sound remotely close to my tube amp with my THR10x, I have to use the THReditor software.
My 10c sounds pretty good out of the box. I've used the editor once I think.
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  #133  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
Agree for the most part, but many modelers are as simple as a tube amp. The Katana amps and Yamaha THR amps (I actually have both.) just involve playing with nobs... although they can be greatly customized through optional apps.
Yes I think we agree for the most part.
And it was something someone in the video mentioned not my observation . And some tube amps can be rather complex , one reason I sold my Mesa Lonestar Special was it was too fiddly for my taste .
BUT:
While perhaps that is true about some modeling amps , but then turning that observation around the next logical question becomes. If simple is the goal , and "just involve playing with knobs" then what "really" is the advantage of modelling ?

Also hard to imagine a modeling amp as simple as

Power switch - Tone knob - Bright switch - Volume knob

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  #134  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:44 AM
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Probably the best - and only thing - I've done in 22 years with my Hot Rod Deluxe was putting wheels on it. I blew my back out with it twice. Clearly I'm doing something wrong but that tone though - SO worth it!

The reverb cuts in and out though. The cost to replace is half what I paid for the amp but I don't think I'd ever succumb to AAS.
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  #135  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Yes I think we agree for the most part.
And it was something someone in the video mentioned not my observation . And some tube amps can be rather complex , one reason I sold my Mesa Lonestar Special was it was too fiddly for my taste .
BUT:
While perhaps that is true about some modeling amps , but then turning that observation around the next logical question becomes. If simple is the goal , and "just involve playing with knobs" then what "really" is the advantage of modelling ?

Also hard to imagine a modeling amp as simple as

Power switch - Tone knob - Bright switch - Volume knob

The advantage of modeling is the portability, sound customization, and all the built in effects. They can be like having 10 amps and a pedal board in one, lightweight package.
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