Can somebody give me a simple answer as to why you would sand the saddle?

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by beninma

That's not at all a problem... more realistically the problem is people who go buy another guitar, or 5 more guitars, cause the one they have isn't setup right and for some reason it seems too hard/undesirable to get the setup dialed in.

It doesn't take a whole lot of time to "polish" one guitar so it plays perfectly. It's a lot less time & hassle than building a collection of guitars.

Posts like, "what guitar can I go buy that has a low easy to play action" are the problem. Just take the guitar you have and get it setup for a low easy to play action. Even if you go take a class and buy your own tools you'll end up spending less money than buying even a cheap asian guitar.

For the OP... saddles get sanded on the top differentially to change/fix intonation. Sometimes material is sanded evenly off the bottom of the saddle to lower the action at the upper frets.

Nut Slot height - affects action in the lowest frets
Truss Rod - affects neck relief, has the appearance of changing the relationship of the middle frets to the lower/upper frets
Saddle height/neck angle - affects the upper frets

If the Nut & truss rod are setup really well but the action is too high at the saddle it'll be noticeable when playing up the neck. It might not matter if you spend all your time strumming chords up in the first 5 frets. If you want to go play triads down by the 12th fret it's really noticeable.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh believe me...there are plenty of folks that get trapped/lost in the maelstrom of "perfect set-up spec's" and end up really not enjoying playing their guitars. It becomes and OCD/AR issue with them and it ends up consuming and ultimately ruining their guitar owning/playing experience.

Much like the folks who get lost and wander forever in the desert of guitar "design/build/tone spec's minutiae", which often intertwines with the legendary lost in jungle of the "search for the holy grail".

For some folks, it can be all to easy to get absorbed with all the myriad details about the guitar, to the point that they forget the point of the guitar in the first place...to make music.

The guitar playing people that I know, whom are the most happy, are the ones who focus on all the guitar minutiae details the least, and the objective...making music...the most.

A matter of perspective I suppose...

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

So is it safe to say that the main reason somebody would sand the saddle is to get the action lower and that tone or volume a minor reason?

Edited. I see that intonation is a big reason to sand the saddle. That make sense.

Top of saddle adjustments I know nothing about - I leave that to my tech, together with all other set up work on a new guitar. I will tweak the truss rod later if necessary.

I’ve never heard of sanding down the bottom of the saddle to affect/improve tone whatsoever - only to further lower the action after the nut slots have been adjusted. I’ve only found a one way street with regard to lowering the saddle - loss of torque, power and tone - only a decline, not an improvement.

[stephenT]

Just a response to those who maintain the truss rod isn't used to adjust action,..

Sure it is, neck relief is the gravy in an action set up and is a personal choice, some folks need a bit of relief, some (myself) prefer no neck relief. But a truss rod adjustment effects action from the first to the 14th fret.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by ctvolfan

Is it for intonation? Does it improve the volume or tone to get the strings closer to the bridge? I see some people that sand it to lower the action. Why is adjusting the truss rod not sufficient enough to lower the action? I would assume that since the truss rod takes bow in or out of the neck that maybe no matter how much you adjust it, you could still have high action if the nut and saddle are too high. It would seem to me that the nut would affect the height of the strings more than the saddle since the saddle is not part of the neck.

Sometimes I think that I wouldn't even pay attention to this stuff if I hadn't heard about it from somebody somewhere and it gets me worrying about stuff I would not have worried about if I had never heard about it in the first place. I have tweaked my truss rods for years but never touched the nut and saddle unless I have had my tech that I use switch them out.

The truss rod is NOT for adjusting action, only for relief (bow). In any case it only works over the central part of the neck leaving the extremes unaffected.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by stephenT

Just a response to those who maintain the truss rod isn't used to adjust action,..

Sure it is, neck relief is the gravy in an action set up and is a personal choice, some folks need a bit of relief, some (myself) prefer no neck relief. But a truss rod adjustment effects action from the first to the 14th fret.

Agree. I’ve read some insane things in the past (thankfully not yet on this thread) about how adjusting relief does not affect height of strings off the fretboard, but in the end, I think it simply is an issue of the struggle to explain things clearly in writing.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Arthur Slowhand

Surely, lowering or filing the nut lowers the strings at the nut end and lowering the saddle lowers the strings (slightly) at the higher registers - isn't that just simple geometry?

Yes. As was previously stated the nut, saddle and truss rod all play a part in getting your action set up to your personal preference.

[bufflehead]

Moving past "action" vs "relief," the simplest answer to the question as to why you would sand the saddle is "playability."

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by stephenT

Just a response to those who maintain the truss rod isn't used to adjust action,..

Sure it is, neck relief is the gravy in an action set up and is a personal choice, some folks need a bit of relief, some (myself) prefer no neck relief. But a truss rod adjustment effects action from the first to the 14th fret.

Yes, but used on its own without doing work on the nut and saddle will only result in an uneven action; either a hump or a back bow. The first few frets of the neck will be unaffected by using just the truss rod, and if the nut action is high no amount of tweaking the truss rod will lower it.

[WildBill82]

Another reason people sand the saddle is to delay (or camouflage) the necessity of a neck reset on a guitar.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Arthur Slowhand

Is it safe to say that some people are confusing sanding the overall underside of the saddle to lower the action, with selective sanding of the topside for intonation?

Quite safe. :-)

The business on top is called "compensation." It's a pretty common thing for luthiers to do.

[leew3]

to the OP-now you know: this is the AGF-there are no simple answers....

[stephenT]

and relief doesn't effect action,.. right!

Originally Posted by AndrewG

The truss rod is NOT for adjusting action, only for relief (bow). In any case it only works over the central part of the neck leaving the extremes unaffected.

[stephenT]

We never said, "used on its own", tho on guitars where all other elements are correct: nut, frets and saddle, the truss rod should be used to adjust for seasonal/humidity changes.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Yes, but used on its own without doing work on the nut and saddle will only result in an uneven action; either a hump or a back bow. The first few frets of the neck will be unaffected by using just the truss rod, and if the nut action is high no amount of tweaking the truss rod will lower it.

[ctvolfan]

LOL so true! Everybody here is great. I have learned so much since finding this forum a couple of years ago. It has also muddied the waters for me on many things but that's okay because there are few things I enjoy more than talking and reading anything about acoustic guitars. Between all of the answers and opinions on here there is truth and or facts within it all. We just have to weed out what works best for each of us. Because at the end of the day we are all different and have different tastes.

Originally Posted by leew3

to the OP-now you know: this is the AGF-there are no simple answers....

[Akousticplyr]

I also sand them during string changes if I notice aggressive grooving which for me results in a lot of broken strings at the saddle (due to my play style).