Turning a 12 string into a Terz

Duh · #1 11-06-2019, 11:20 PM

Is it possible to string a regular 12 string guitar using instead of the low E string, start that with the low A string so that the high Es would be in the same place as your B strings. My guess is yes but here's the catch: what gauge could you using for final two E positions so that you could tune it to a high A without the strings breaking or placing too much pressure on the neck?

I'm thinking not a traditional Terz where it is a third up but rather, it would be a fifth up.

Doug Young · #2 11-06-2019, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duh

Is it possible to string a regular 12 string guitar using instead of the low E string, start that with the low A string so that the high Es would be in the same place as your B strings. My guess is yes but here's the catch: what gauge could you using for final two E positions so that you could tune it to a high A without the strings breaking or placing too much pressure on the neck?

I'm thinking not a traditional Terz where it is a third up but rather, it would be a fifth up.

You could use one of the online tension calculators to figure it out, but it would have to be pretty light, 7 or 8, maybe. I'd think you'd be better off just using a capo to achieve that effect, or getting a guitar designed for that. Here's my Yamamoto 12, short scale, equivalent to capo V when it's open. I can use a normal light gauge set for this guitar, tuned A-A for standard, G-G for "DADGAD":

A few different builders make guitars like these, Viellette is one, I think.

cdkrugjr · #3 11-07-2019, 06:04 AM

I'm not sure it's achievable on a steel string at standard scale.

What you're asking for sounds like a "Guitarra Requinto", which is similar to the "Guitarlele" that Yamaha and Cordoba (iirc) sell, in exactly that tuning.

drive-south · #4 11-07-2019, 11:05 AM

Tune to standard and capo at third fret. There's your Terz.

If you play 12 sting a good capo is a must.

Steve DeRosa · #5 11-07-2019, 06:39 PM

One of these should be exactly what you're looking for - tunable to G or A:

http://www.veilletteguitars.com/acoustic_terz.shtml

birdsong · #6 11-07-2019, 07:02 PM

In addition to the Veillette Terz variety, here’s a Veillette Gryphon listed in the AGF classifieds. Stratospheric tuning....

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=562337

And a short blurb from the website:

The Gryphon is designed for D tuning (equivalent to the 10th fret of a standard guitar). This unique range is make possible by its short scale length (18.1") and custom strings (gauges .009" to .042").

Duh · #7 11-07-2019, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You could use one of the online tension calculators to figure it out, but it would have to be pretty light, 7 or 8, maybe. I'd think you'd be better off just using a capo to achieve that effect, or getting a guitar designed for that. Here's my Yamamoto 12, short scale, equivalent to capo V when it's open. I can use a normal light gauge set for this guitar, tuned A-A for standard, G-G for "DADGAD":

A few different builders make guitars like these, Viellette is one, I think.

This is beautiful. Thank you, Doug! But, I was thinking of turning a dumb purchase of a 12 string I bought into something better by switching the strings around. I think what I have would have a nice sound as it is, provided I can find a string for the high A. If possible, this would be much cheaper than purchasing a $4000 dollar beauty like a Tony Yamamoto. I do have a Viellette Gryphon and I love it. If I could somehow find the right string for the bad impulse buy, I think I might have a nice kick-around guitar to take to work for location shoots.

Duh · #8 11-07-2019, 08:19 PM

Maybe this would do it.

https://www.stringsbymail.com/daddar...007-17328.html

drive-south · #9 11-07-2019, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdsong

In addition to the Veillette Terz variety, here’s a Veillette Gryphon listed in the AGF classifieds. Stratospheric tuning....

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=562337

And a short blurb from the website:

The Gryphon is designed for D tuning (equivalent to the 10th fret of a standard guitar). This unique range is make possible by its short scale length (18.1") and custom strings (gauges .009" to .042").

Joe also makes the Merlin tuned E-e a full octave above standard. I find this tuning not useful for me at all. I used to own a Jerry Jones Shorty and sold it for the same reason.

Duh · #10 11-07-2019, 08:30 PM

uh maybe this instead.

https://www.amazon.com/DAddario-PL00...000EENI7Y?th=1

Duh · #11 11-07-2019, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You could use one of the online tension calculators to figure it out, but it would have to be pretty light, 7 or 8, maybe. I'd think you'd be better off just using a capo to achieve that effect, or getting a guitar designed for that. Here's my Yamamoto 12, short scale, equivalent to capo V when it's open. I can use a normal light gauge set for this guitar, tuned A-A for standard, G-G for "DADGAD":

A few different builders make guitars like these, Viellette is one, I think.

By the way, what are the woods that are used for the back, sides, and top?

Duh · #12 11-07-2019, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You could use one of the online tension calculators to figure it out, but it would have to be pretty light, 7 or 8, maybe. I'd think you'd be better off just using a capo to achieve that effect, or getting a guitar designed for that. Here's my Yamamoto 12, short scale, equivalent to capo V when it's open. I can use a normal light gauge set for this guitar, tuned A-A for standard, G-G for "DADGAD":

A few different builders make guitars like these, Viellette is one, I think.

Just shared your video on Facebook.

maxr · #13 11-08-2019, 04:42 AM

I tried to tune a full scale length 12 to all 5ths, C G D A E B. The only way to get the top B string was to tune the whole thing down a tone from that and capo back up two frets. The 1st pair were that A pitch you're aiming for, using D'Addario NYXL extra tough 8.5s on the top pair. Those strings still sounded thin and broke now and again, so not a success.

I think that might be why Fripp/New Standard tuning is C G D A E G - the 1 busts if you try for B. The 3rd pair octave string on a regular 12 is the same high G pitch as the New Stadard 1st.

Another guitar that works for Tierce tuning (at least, the guy who designed it says it does) is the Vintage Viator travel guitar https://vintageguitarsus.com/acousti...viator-natural

ManyMartinMan · #14 11-08-2019, 05:21 AM

You don't. A terz is a terz and a full-sized 12-string guitar - is not. You can manipulate your 12-string and set it up any way you like and use specific strings that allow terz guitar tuning on standard scale length guitars at normal string tension, but that obviously won't make it a terz, short-scale, guitar. If you take 8 strings off it, it won't make it a bass guitar or ukulele. Rather than making a "dumb purchase" a further mess, I would sell it and buy a terz if that's what you want. No amount of lipstick is going to make a pig something other than a pig.

There are plenty of terz guitars out there. Buy one and experiment.

Doug Young · #15 11-08-2019, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duh

By the way, what are the woods that are used for the back, sides, and top?

Maccasar ebony back snd sides, pawlonia top.

I think the challenge for what you want to do is the octave 3rd string. That would be a high C, i doubt you can get a string light enough to tune up that high. But with a capo, you get the tuning, and a shorter effective scale length, so with a standard guitar, id just live with capo V to get that sound.