"Zizzing" open high e & B - Nut repair & Nut Materials

[jonfields45]

My duo partner hears what he calls zizzing on his open unwound strings. It seems to happen on all his guitars (see later post where I note that two of his guitars and both of mine do not "ziz"). Even new factory repair bone nuts on his Taylor GC8 and Martin HD-28VR did not resolve the problem to his satisfaction for both strings on both guitars. The local luthiers that I respect the most, Brothers Music in Wind Gap PA, were not enthusiastic about fixing this problem when we went there to discuss it with them. My partner claims that my 6-month-old RainSong (H-DR1100N2, factory Graph Tech TUSQ nut) does not ziz. I think I can hear what he is complaining about. I took his HD-28VR where the problem is the high-e string and I put a tiny bit of cyanoacrylate glue in the high-e nut slot and reformed it with a razor blade (I don't own a 12-mil file or saw and he is not concerned about the string hanging up a bit during tuning). The ziz was gone for a week or so. I am guessing the nut slot is wearing slightly where the string exits over the fingerboard. He wants me to try again and this time I plan to repeat the same experiment but use a little bone dust before the cyanoacrylate.

1) If you understand what I am trying to fix, is there a better technique?

2) If he brings his guitar to a local first rate luthier for a new nut, is there a better material than bone, if optimizing for no ziz is the goal?

THANKS!

[runamuck]

Bone is considered by most people to be the best. It sounds like the nut slots are the problem if the issue disappeared for a while after the cyano treatment.

[Frankieabbott]

What is zizzing? Is it like buzzing?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Frankieabbott

What is zizzing? Is it like buzzing?

A sort of metallic sizzle to the tone which does not bother me or sound that bad to me.

[Ned Milburn]

Some people have more capable ears, which may be due to more training and/or more actual hearing acuity and frequency range. Also, some people are just more sensitive to slight sounds.

It is strange that all his guitars do this.

It is true, however, that an improperly cut nut can yield troublesome open notes.

[Frank Ford]

One important question - does he hear this noise only on HIS guitars, or is it something he hears on others as well. If that's the case, what chance is there to "fix" it for him?

We see this problem all the time in the shop. A player becomes sensitized to a little effect that is present on all instruments, and feels his is worse than others. After some time, if we're lucky, we'll come to an agreement that everybody has little things like that to suffer, and maybe it's not such a big deal after all, particularly if others aren't bothered by it.

Many's the time we've had someone come into the shop with a buzzing guitar that we feel is properly set up and playing normally. We'll invite the player to look over all the instruments we have on display in order to find one that plays to his satisfaction, so we can adjust his to be similar. Often enough the report comes back, "All these are worse than mine!" Then, both of us know what to do.

[karlitofingers]

It does sound like incorrectly nut slots but again, on all the guitars at the same time?? Hmmm. There's a very quick way to decide if it's the nut slot, play the open string whilst pressing the string down into the slot with something thin (I can usually manage to do it with my nail). If it stops buzzing it's the nut, if not then you know to look elsewhere, the bridge can also buzz if the strings has made a deep groove in there.


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[Frankieabbott]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

A sort of metallic sizzle to the tone which does not bother me or sound that bad to me.

Is it like when the thinner strings on my guitars sometimes sound like a sitar?

[jonfields45]

I was wrong about all his guitars, only his two main instruments, the GC8's B-string and the HD-28V e-string. He does not play his other guitars that often, but he puts reasonable mileage on a '42 000-21, a 60s D-18S, and a 60s D12-20 which all have (I think) bone nuts done by local luthiers. The GC8 for finish peeling, and the HD-28V for a neck reset, were both factory repaired and received new bone nuts too.

I can hear what he is referring to and my RainSong does not do it (according to him and me). Since I can make it go away by tightening up the nut slot with cyanoacrylate (at least temporarily) I think it is wear in the front of the nut slot.

Is TUSQ a better material for this problem given my RainSong does not exhibit the problem? Or maybe the newer bone nuts on the newer guitars are just a bit on the soft side???

At this point the HD-28V's high-e nut slot is partially filled with bone dust and cyanoacrylate and I'll be cutting it today. Would baking soda and cyanoacrylate wear better?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Frankieabbott

Is it like when the thinner strings on my guitars sometimes sound like a sitar?

Maybe ever so slightly. You can make it better by holding the string end down in the nut and the fretted notes do not do it.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

One important question - does he hear this noise only on HIS guitars, or is it something he hears on others as well.

He read this thread and you can see my correction above. My guitar does not do it and his other guitars are all good too.

[redir]

It's kind of like when you are driving down the road with your friend or sig other and you all of a sudden...

"Do you hear that noise?"

"No what noise?"

"That one, that wizzing noise."

"Where is it coming from?"

"From the back, you can't hear that?"

"No but I do hear a rattle coming from the front right."

"What are you crazy?"

[Ned Milburn]

Nut slots need to be cut well. I cut mine on a curve both vertically and horizontally. Important is a clear cut off at the release point, so the string doesn't make the sitar tone.

Also, if a nut slot is too low, it can yield a buzz on the open string only.

[karlitofingers]

If the string can afford to come down a very small amount you can just reshape the slot. The nut should only need filling with dust and glue if sorting it out will cause it to end up too low. I sometimes line the slot with graphite using a sharp pencil and then cut, you can see where your taking material off from.


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[KingCavalier]

Could just be the back strings.