John Hardy versus Audient pre's

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

And so it begins.

Cue the opening music from Jaws

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Cue the opening music from Jaws

His next line is going to be something like, "I'm not really interested in getting a tube pre."

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

.... [snip] ....
but I just wanted something that really captured all of the tone I am getting my acoustic guitar.
Because of this, I have barely touched my recording gear(and I had a pair of Schoeps and AT4050's as well) [/INDENT]

I got my John Hardy M-2 about a month ago(3 channels), but had no time to even plug it in. As I was leaving on vacation to Oregon, Idaho and Montana. Got Back last Friday but still no time. Finally on Tuesday My new- first of its kind- Buzz Audio Velox compressor came in the mail. Now it was absolutely time to get over my fears and start plugging in. Can't let all the gear sit around.

So here is the low down; I know everyone says that preamps make the least difference.
But OH MY! night and day difference between my Audient Pres and the John Hardy pres. In this case, it is like a veil has been lifted. There was a hollowness with the Audient Pres(and everyone says the Audient pres are good?)

Thank goodness the ID44 has a complete bypass of the pre's for two channels.

Now My guitar sounds like it should, deep, rich, smooth & full. I have one last criticism of my acoustic guitar sound, and that is when I power strum. I seem to be missing the initial treble harmonics when I strike. I call it Bite? When I hit the Chord hard, I am missing that solid bite of the treble harmonics. No problems when playing at normal level...just those power chords. And I hit hard.

.... [snip] ....

But Now, I am wondering if it is my Headphones that are the real problem. Don't have my speakers plugged in at the moment. Maybe my headphones can not pick up that quick response times of a power chord? Regardless I still plan to experiment with a center channel. But that will be another story. And so far the Buzz Audio Velox stereo optical compressor? A Big, Big plus. wow, so smooth and musical. A lot to explore with the Velox(But again, that will be another story)

.... [snip] ....

Glad your gear all came in and you've had a chance to do an initial setup and test. Sounds like you're well satisfied; your research paid off.

[sdelsolray]

Great gear is hard to knock, other than the relative cost.

John Hardy preamps have been around for decades and with few exceptions they receive well earned praise. I had a 2 channel M2 with output transformers for a few years. Nice box.

Put me in the camp of "preamps often make a difference".

Also, put me in the camp of "combinations of a particular mic and a particular preamp can create a unique greatness".

[frankmcr]

Can either the OP or a moderator please change "verses" to "versus".

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Can either the OP or a moderator please change "verses" to "versus".

Done, sorry about that.

Have always had a bit of Dyslexia, especially when it comes to spelling or mispronouncing words. (o.k..truth be told I better include improper sentence structure as well)

Still have not completely figured out the proper pronunciation of Schoeps. LOL. John Hardy and I have had fun conversation today over the pronunciation of Schoeps.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Still have not completely figured out the proper pronunciation of Schoeps. LOL. John Hardy and I have had fun conversation today over the pronunciation of Schoeps.

The official answer :-)

[AcousticDreams]

I AM IN THIS VIDEO!

I did not know...How funny!

In the brown petroglyph t-shirt at 25 seconds! That Says, "This Is The Mic" ( and that is probably cause I could not pronounce it properly. ha ha)

What a laugh!

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The official answer :-)

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I have been a late bloomer as far as recording goes.

One of the main reasons is I have never been even remotely happy with any of my recorded signals. O.K Call me a snob..haha....but I just wanted something that really captured all of the tone I am getting my acoustic guitar.
Because of this, I have barely touched my recording gear(and I had a pair of Schoeps and AT4050's as well)

I got my John Hardy M-2 about a month ago(3 channels), but had no time to even plug it in. As I was leaving on vacation to Oregon, Idaho and Montana. Got Back last Friday but still no time. Finally on Tuesday My new- first of its kind- Buzz Audio Velox compressor came in the mail. Now it was absolutely time to get over my fears and start plugging in. Can't let all the gear sit around.

So here is the low down; I know everyone says that preamps make the least difference.
But OH MY! night and day difference between my Audient Pres and the John Hardy pres. In this case, it is like a veil has been lifted. There was a hollowness with the Audient Pres(and everyone says the Audient pres are good?)

Thank goodness the ID44 has a complete bypass of the pre's for two channels.

Now My guitar sounds like it should, deep, rich, smooth & full. I have one last criticism of my acoustic guitar sound, and that is when I power strum. I seem to be missing the initial treble harmonics when I strike. I call it Bite? When I hit the Chord hard, I am missing that solid bite of the treble harmonics. No problems when playing at normal level...just those power chords. And I hit hard.

My plans still include using a third mic. Kind of a real time Mid-side, only not spliting and inverting a channel...just using a true stereo signal with matched mics- and a third for center channel.

But Now, I am wondering if it is my Headphones that are the real problem. Don't have my speakers plugged in at the moment. Maybe my headphones can not pick up that quick response times of a power chord? Regardless I still plan to experiment with a center channel. But that will be another story. And so far the Buzz Audio Velox stereo optical compressor? A Big, Big plus. wow, so smooth and musical. A lot to explore with the Velox(But again, that will be another story)

Today I just wish to Thank ChuckS for his suggestion for me to investigate John Hardy. And to Guitarman68 for confirming that JH was a great premap. And to Doug Young who's Early Great River has the very same Jensen High Nickle Transformers=and from his recordings and test, I recognized a sound from those trannies, that I liked. Really Grateful to Doug for all the tests he presents on the AGF. Actually really grateful to everyone on the recording side of AGF. So much knowledge and so many willing to lend, sound, kind advice(not always the the other side of the forum...ha ha)

So just for the record, you can count me out of the camp that says that preamps don't make that much difference. Maybe they don't among high quality preamps. Maybe when you get to a certain grade there is little difference? But sure makes a big difference between my Audient pre's and my John Hardy pre's.

So your recording chain is now mics (Schoeps), mic pres (JH), A\D interface (Audient), computer/DAW, correct?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I have been a late bloomer as far as recording goes.

Because of this, I have barely touched my recording gear(and I had a pair of Schoeps and AT4050's as well)

I'm not quite clear you "had" but do not now ? Or you have but have not used them ??

Now My guitar sounds like it should, deep, rich, smooth & full. I have one last criticism of my acoustic guitar sound, and that is when I power strum. I seem to be missing the initial treble harmonics when I strike. I call it Bite? When I hit the Chord hard, I am missing that solid bite of the treble harmonics. No problems when playing at normal level...just those power chords. And I hit hard.

Question ,,,,Are not hearing the attack transient on your RAW (no processing ) recording ? If yes then first does the Audient (And DAW ) have input monitoring ability ?? Because if you are hearing this reduced transient response on RAW recordings then it could be you may be experiencing a system latency issue

My plans still include using a third mic. Kind of a real time Mid-side, only not spliting and inverting a channel...just using a true stereo signal with matched mics- and a third for center channel.

If the answer to my first question is still have why not use the AT 4050 for center ?

But Now, I am wondering if it is my Headphones that are the real problem. Don't have my speakers plugged in at the moment. Maybe my headphones can not pick up that quick response times of a power chord?

Pretty certain it's not the HP's as their analog response is virtually instantaneous

Side note about above try setting your compressor to a slow attack time (this will let the transient's thru before it starts compressing)
Also if you are using a reverb, try running it on its own parallel aux track and set it at least 50 ms pre delay

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The official answer :-)

Thats funny . My dealer where I purchased mine insisted it was "Sheps"

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The official answer :-)

After listening a few times, I'm still not sure how Schoeps is saying his own name. It sounds like something between Shoops and Shups but I'm not quite getting it. Is this a case where the Germans have a sound that we don't use in English?

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

So your recording chain is now mics (Schoeps), mic pres (JH), A\D interface (Audient), computer/DAW, correct?

John Hardy pre - Buzz Audio Velox Optical Stereo Compressor - Audient ID44(by passing the internal pres as they Return input for Channels 1 & 2) to Logic Pro X.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jim1960

After listening a few times, I'm still not sure how Schoeps is saying his own name. It sounds like something between Shoops and Shups but I'm not quite getting it. Is this a case where the Germans have a sound that we don't use in English?

Yeah, I think it's a German thing. I've always said "sheps", and the first time I heard this video, I thought that's what he said - the power of suggestion - but then even after repeated listenings, I can't quite get it, a vowel sound with no english equivalent.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

John Hardy pre - Buzz Audio Velox Optical Stereo Compressor - Audient ID44(by passing the internal pres as they Return input for Channels 1 & 2) to Logic Pro X.

Maybe you already know this BUT Just checked both the Audient and Logic Pro X. So the Audient does not appear to have direct input monitoring... But Logic does have "Low Latency mode" which by passes your plugins while recording,,, but when engaged should get you the lowest latency possible