Recording vocals and guitar together?

[Brent Hahn]

Since nobody seems to have mentioned this yet... whether you're seated or standing can make a difference. When you're standing, the guitar's going to be further away from your mouth (probably).

[lkingston]

I get much more natural sounding recordings when I track guitar and vocals together.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by ssjk

Just curious. When you do multiple takes do you

1. use a click track so the timing stays consistent,
2. Listen to take 1 while doing take 2,
3. Have it down cold enough that you naturally are consistent enough from take to take

I’d be interested in any suggestions, especially if it doesn’t involve the click track.

Thanks

Hi sskj…

I DO NOT use a click track. I record a scratch track (which will be discarded later) being careful to play it at tempo, even if I mess up a word or two.

I do not find it easier to record to scratch tracks…it is easier when tempos or meters are changing or varied to have a performance/scratch track to record them like I play them live.

My scratch tracks are recorded like I'd perform the piece live for an audience, with any musical arranging, licks, fills or tempo changes added which I play live-on the fly.

I do a lot of a-rhymithic sections, and slow-down/speed up a bit sections which do not work well with click tracks. Too many exceptions to try to do that to a click.

If/when we add Bass, other guitars or/and backup vocals, they are recorded while listening to the original scratch track.

I never do the final vocal/guitar track till last (don't know why). I have had occasions where the scratch sounded so good, it became the master vocal/guitar track.

I record my scratch tracks with proper mics on voice and guitar. They are high quality takes (not lazy or unperpared).

I've had other musicians (who I was engineering their recording) talk and give cues during the scratch track-or do an additional voice-over…talking cue track…while listening to the scratch track (for other musicians).

Back when I had a studio for hire, clients were often sloppy on their scratch tracks so they might contain counting out loud,doo-doo-bie-doo sections (forgotten words) and other cues while recording.

But we made sure they were tempo and chord progression and rhythmically correct.

I can play takes for hours seldom making mistakes. But I do play/sing things slightly differently/creatively without changing the arrangements, so it's nice to have options. I avoid changes on the scratch track. I keep it simple, and basic. I can track in licks and runs later on another track.

I don't know where I developed the habit of doing my guitar/vocal track last. I suppose it could be first, but often the other parts recorded affect the way I'm going to interact vocally and guitar-wise in my final version.

If someone recorded something compelling on a backing track, I'd often interact with it musically for the final track.

To answer your #2 question, all the subsequent tracks are recorded to the original take 1 (scratch track).

Bass, percussion, backing vocals etc just hear the original scratch track.

Hope this helps. This is just my process, geared to the way I think and play most creatively. It's not less work…probably more.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Since nobody seems to have mentioned this yet... whether you're seated or standing can make a difference. When you're standing, the guitar's going to be further away from your mouth (probably).

Good point I had not thought about that as I always record any vocal standing up, including when simultaneous with guitar

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Good point I had not thought about that as I always record any vocal standing up, including when simultaneous with guitar

I've worked with folks who do everything standing, or everything sitting, or some of each. The number of people who prefer to sit for tracking vocals might surprise you. And I do know from experience that with some folks, having them sit and placing the mic so they tip their head slightly down is the way to get their airway more open and make their voice sound a bit bigger. But not everyone buys into that, and I'm not inclined to argue about it.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I never do the final vocal/guitar track till last (don't know why). I have had occasions where the scratch sounded so good, it became the master vocal/guitar track.

People seem to like playing to a vocal that's either the final or pretty close to it. It sounds like your scratch vocals are keeper-quality, but a lot of people's aren't and they can be pretty uninspiring.

Bass, percussion, backing vocals etc just hear the original scratch track.

I play a lot on other people's songs, and I can't tell you the number of times I've been given just the "bare bones" to play to, and then heard the end result and thought, "well, if I had known they were going to do that...”

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I've worked with folks who do everything standing, or everything sitting, or some of each. The number of people who prefer to sit for tracking vocals might surprise you. And I do know from experience that with some folks, having them sit and placing the mic so they tip their head slightly down is the way to get their airway more open and make their voice sound a bit bigger. But not everyone buys into that, and I'm not inclined to argue about it.

That's interesting. I've always noticed that many times the mic is placed above the level of the head so the singer projects upward. Is that wrong?

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

That's interesting. I've always noticed that many times the mic is placed above the level of the head so the singer projects upward. Is that wrong?

A lot of voice teachers including my ex-GF the opera singer would say so. A mic might be positioned a little higher than dead straight (so it doesn’t block the sheet music, maybe), but that doesn’t mean you’re supposed to tip your head up and aim your mouth at it.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

A lot of voice teachers including my ex-GF the opera singer would say so. A mic might be positioned a little higher than dead straight (so it doesn’t block the sheet music, maybe), but that doesn’t mean you’re supposed to tip your head up and aim your mouth at it.

We're drifting a bit, but my choir director used to tell an (apocryphal) anecdote about the opera singer who could never cleanly hit the high high note. Then one night during a performance, she dropped her handkerchief and looked down to pick it up just as the song reached the high note... and it came out clear as a bell. Bottom line--Brent is right that most people will sing better if their head is tipped slightly down. Straining up to a high microphone, rock-n-roll style, may look cool but isn't conducive to getting a good vocal performance.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

We're drifting a bit, but my choir director used to tell an (apocryphal) anecdote about the opera singer who could never cleanly hit the high high note. Then one night during a performance, she dropped her handkerchief and looked down to pick it up just as the song reached the high note... and it came out clear as a bell. Bottom line--Brent is right that most people will sing better if their head is tipped slightly down. Straining up to a high microphone, rock-n-roll style, may look cool but isn't conducive to getting a good vocal performance.

Yes drifting into some exaggeration . Brent and I debated this some time ago which since then actually caused me to do a fair amount of research and actually changed my mind ( I had always heard and thought best was sightly up) But more research led me to conclude, the reality is that if you look at a bunch of photos of studio vocalists or opera singers, you get about an even 1/3 mix, from slightly down, to straight out , to slightly up,, which IMO has noting to do with "looking cool" but is probably more about what feels comfortable (which should be the goal)

And "straining" up or down, I would think would obviously not be conducive to good vocal technique. Juss sayin

[RRuskin]

I would tell clients to sing in the position in which they were comfortable while I placed the mic where it needed to be. After which, he or she should ignore the microphone, rather than sing directly toward it.