Pros and Cons of 12-Fret Short Scale Guitar

[AZLiberty]

The 12th fret body join results in the bridge being moved lower on the soundboard to accomodate a given scale length, which, all other things being equal, means it's more centered in the soundboard's widest area. The result is a more fundimental tone and fewer overtones.

This is normally perceived as giving more clarity. Thus often folks will say it provides more bass, but in reality it's the lack of overtones that make the base sound more clear.

It also can result in a slight increase in sustain.

I had a Larrivee LS-03 with the 12-fret neck. Tons of sustain, but the clarity drove me nuts.

[hairpuller]

Originally Posted by mercy

I have read about how great 12 freter's are so I finally bought one, a 000 size short scale. Nope, not great. Just not enough neck for what I play and I have determined not to play a cutaway cause they are just so ugly. I am not a performer and part of the guitar experience is the beauty of the instrument. Having the side hacked out is just a no go.

Man, I sure feel you! Really think cutaways should only appear on electrics.
Scott

[lfarhadi]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

The result is a more fundimental tone and fewer overtones. .

What is the basis for this?

The way I understand it, as between 12 and 14 frets, both of equal scale lengths, the 12 fretter more efficiently/powerfully drive the top because the bridge is more centered in the lower bout and also because a shorter neck is more efficient at energy transfer. So the characteristics associated with better efficiency/power are, all else equal, slightly better in 12 fretters: volume, sustain, responsiveness, etc. I believe emphasis on fundamentals vs overtones is not directly linked to the power/efficiency of how the top is driven.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

The 12th fret body join results in the bridge being moved lower on the soundboard to accomodate a given scale length, which, all other things being equal, means it's more centered in the soundboard's widest area. The result is a more fundimental tone and fewer overtones.

This is normally perceived as giving more clarity. Thus often folks will say it provides more bass, but in reality it's the lack of overtones that make the base sound more clear.

It also can result in a slight increase in sustain.

I had a Larrivee LS-03 with the 12-fret neck. Tons of sustain, but the clarity drove me nuts.

I haven’t experienced this phenomenon myself, but I play (mostly) guitars built in the vintage Martin tradition. In that world, the bridge isn’t moved. The body is elongated up to the 12the fret from the OM design (actually, the historical evolution was the reverse - the OM was birthed from the 12 fret 000). I believe the more expansive bass responsive is partly a result of the larger internal volume of the 12 fret. I own and have owned a number of 12 frets and have never associated them with a more fundamental sound. I believe the overtone content is driven much more by other design decisions and probably has little to do with the fret where the neck joins the body. That has been my experience anyway.

[Fresh1985]

I bought a used martin 00-28vs 2 years ago and have been totally won over by 12fret tone, comfort and even aesthetics.

To me they sound fuller than a 14fret guitar and despite being thought of as primarily fingerstyle instruments I really love how they sound with a pick.

They are much more versatile instruments than people realize.

These days if I had to chose one guitar it would be a 12 fret 00.

[emuhunter]

Originally Posted by mercy

I have read about how great 12 freter's are so I finally bought one, a 000 size short scale. Nope, not great. Just not enough neck for what I play and I have determined not to play a cutaway cause they are just so ugly. I am not a performer and part of the guitar experience is the beauty of the instrument. Having the side hacked out is just a no go.

Although I politely disagree with your opinion on 12 fret guitars (I’m QUITE a fan of them) I completely agree with you regarding cutaways on acoustics. Bleh, they’re ugly in my opinion!

What kind of 12 fret guitar did you purchase out of curiosity?

[Tony Burns]

Im very fond of my Horton 12 fretter - a great full sounding
guitar -think 12 fretter's are a well kept secret . I really dont miss
having the extra 2 frets above the body - Mine is kept in DADGAD
and its a monster ( very loud and rings beautifully ) basically play rock
on it -more than anything -
i believe you have allot of notes on your typical guitar and with practice
you find alternate notes for the few you miss with 12 fretters .
Mine is a long body and i believe the bridge is more centrally located on the body which gives it a more full sound .
I have 3 other 12 fretters but their vintage smaller guitars- their nice and all but do not have the volume the Horton has.
-the vintage models are ladder braced.

[wguitar]

Great conversation about 12-fretters folks! Very informative. Now to go and find some to play. Something about AGF always gets you thinking about more guitars. OOO (12-fret) are my next exploration target. Maybe a Larrivee ? What's your favorite OOO 12-fret ?

[jedzep]

I've owned a few great ones, especially my '31 Gibson.

I'm hoping for another sweet find, as I just bought this 22 year old Martin 00015 12 fretter.

[Hurley711]

Originally Posted by boombox

As the OP specifically talked about short scale 12-frets, I'll offer my experience. 3 years ago, I decided one was going to be what a "special birthday" guitar would be. Based on past experience of Collings, my grail was a Waterloo WL-12, but there were none to be had in the UK. I decided to try what I could find in that configuration, as I had never indeed even seen a short scale 12-fret. An early contender was the Martin 00-17 Whiskey Sunset, which was a really nice little blues guitar - in fact the best Martin I'd ever played. I tried a Taylor 312, which was... OK. However, the sales guy mentioned they had a 712e (non V braced). Though it was beyond my budget, I tried it and was blown away by the comfort and the way it actually rumbled - I mean you shouldn't feel the bass on a concert-sized guitar, should you? I couldn't afford it though, but the GAS didn't dissipate and a few weeks later, I scored a much better deal on one elsewhere sight unseen and I've never regretted it. It does whatever I require and handles drop-D very well, in particular.

Last year I was looking for a cheap travel guitar. Didn't like the GS mini, but saw a Faith Mercury cheap on the bay, put in a bid and won. It's not in the same league as my 712e, but it's a very nice, well-made, all solid wood 12-fretter, though it's a very short scale, so alternate tunings don't sound great on it. In addition, the nut is a bit cramped. However, it projects way better than such a small guitar should and has accompanied me on two holidays since.

Fast forward to this year. I had been missing having a dread for some time. Couldn't justify anything over a thousand, so was looking at used dreads by Guild, in particular. I ended up buying two guitars in a week (NGD coming soon!), one of which was a Faith Mars 12-fret slope, cedar over mahogany with a 45mm nut and chunky neck profile. Briefly, it sounds wonderful, all full and woody, and it's possibly the most comfortable dread I've ever played. However, this one is standard-scale. I offer this as it shows that being short scale may not be necessary and with three 12-frets in my arsenal now, am definitely beginning to get what our own Silly Moustache has been raving about for years.

Thoughts on the Mars 12th fret a few years later? Do you still own it? How was your overall experience with the guitar? Also...chunky neck? Thanks

[Hurley711]

Originally Posted by Fresh1985

I bought a used martin 00-28vs 2 years ago and have been totally won over by 12fret tone, comfort and even aesthetics.

To me they sound fuller than a 14fret guitar and despite being thought of as primarily fingerstyle instruments I really love how they sound with a pick.

They are much more versatile instruments than people realize.

These days if I had to chose one guitar it would be a 12 fret 00.

Glad to see someone promoting the use of a pick and strumming on a 12 fretter. I know I'm resurrecting an old thread but I'm looking at 12 feet Taylor's particularly a 712e and this site has been a wealth of knowledge

[Jeff Scott]

The 12-fret shorty I have is probably the finest sounding guitar I have ever played (NB: I have hardly played them all ).

Yamamoto Talus VS-12

[rollypolly]

My 12 fret H&D 000 is growing on me. Definitely good volume and bass for a small guitar, and the rosewood B&S does not have that many overtones (someone commented on that property with 12 fretters) which is perfectly fine with me since I don't like a complicated sound. There are overtones, just not as many as you'd think for rosewood.

All said and done, I'd say neck profile and setup and scale length are more important to me than the amount of frets to the body. If the guitar is hard to play then it got to go!

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by hairpuller

Man, I sure feel you! Really think cutaways should only appear on electrics.
Scott

What if other people like them?

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by wguitar

Great conversation about 12-fretters folks! Very informative. Now to go and find some to play. Something about AGF always gets you thinking about more guitars. OOO (12-fret) are my next exploration target. Maybe a Larrivee ? What's your favorite OOO 12-fret ?

My favorite 000 right now is a 12 fret Collings. 0002H short scale cutaway. I also have a 12 fret Halcyon 000...Lutz over Padauk. Recently sold a Martin 000-15S. Its a great set-up.

I also have a 00-70 Larrivee and a Kopp Trail Boss...both 12 fretters...