Cardioid recording vs Omni directional recording

[TBman]

I was curious after listening to tdlwhite's mic comparisons so I did these two short comparisons with my WA 14 and WA 47jr large condensers. I don't really hear any difference through my headphones. Maybe the omni is a little quieter? The mic positions are the same, same guitar, same distance. Maybe with a tune that is more dynamic a difference would come through? Not sure. I'll try it out again sometime with my classicals.

Do you hear a difference?

No eq was done on the tracks except boosting gain (25db) and evening the gain between the left and right mics. I also snipped a bit off the beginning of each.

Omni:


Cardioid:

[jim1960]

What you played doesn't really emphasize where I hear the most difference, which is in the low end. If you listen to the one section in each example where you play some lower notes, you should be able to hear airier sound in omni vs a fuller sound in cardioid.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by jim1960

What you played doesn't really emphasize where I hear the most difference, which is in the low end. If you listen to the one section in each example where you play some lower notes, you should be able to hear airier sound in omni vs a fuller sound in cardioid.

I was reading that mics set in omni can be closer than mics in cardioid. I kept them the same distance. Back to the woodshed tomorrow.

[tdlwhite]

Yeah - it took me a while to work out the 'best' way to use omni - getting them closer. I still haven't done enough experimenting to really know the best use in my recording setup.

In your two recordings I prefer the cardioid, because it sounds (to me) smoother on the transients; the omni has harder sounding attack.

What I'm planning (eventually) to do, is to get my recording space into better shape (by making some panels), and then I can hopefully back the mics off a little and try some other recording techniques.

One thing that struck me in your post is that you're boosting gain by 25db? I've been trying to get my recording levels close to my finished levels, so in the DAW I'm only pushing between about 1 and 6 dB of gain to get them to my desired level. I add that gain either as make-up in the compressor, or in EQ (I don't really do much in EQ) or using the track faders. I don't really know what I'm doing btw, I'm just making it up as I go and listening to the output!

Very last thing, and it's something that I battle with: I think your left channel is a little louder than the right. Sometimes this is true for me too - I have the left channel as the mic that points at the neck/body join, and it's usually quieter than the boomier body mic, but then can be louder with any dynamics!

Tom

[TBman]

Originally Posted by tdlwhite

Yeah - it took me a while to work out the 'best' way to use omni - getting them closer. I still haven't done enough experimenting to really know the best use in my recording setup.

In your two recordings I prefer the cardioid, because it sounds (to me) smoother on the transients; the omni has harder sounding attack.

What I'm planning (eventually) to do, is to get my recording space into better shape (by making some panels), and then I can hopefully back the mics off a little and try some other recording techniques.

One thing that struck me in your post is that you're boosting gain by 25db? I've been trying to get my recording levels close to my finished levels, so in the DAW I'm only pushing between about 1 and 6 dB of gain to get them to my desired level. I add that gain either as make-up in the compressor, or in EQ (I don't really do much in EQ) or using the track faders. I don't really know what I'm doing btw, I'm just making it up as I go and listening to the output!

Very last thing, and it's something that I battle with: I think your left channel is a little louder than the right. Sometimes this is true for me too - I have the left channel as the mic that points at the neck/body join, and it's usually quieter than the boomier body mic, but then can be louder with any dynamics!

Tom

Tom,

The Zoom F3 that is my recorder is 32 bit. There isn't an input gain to set.

Usually, the left channel comes out a little quieter and I have to add 2 or 3 db or so. I just messed up and missed the mark a bit. Even when I was using 2 mics that were the same (AT 2035) I always had to even out the two channels.

I was reading here that omni mics should be set up closer to the source than cardioid. I'm going to experiment. That probably explains why I'm hearing a slightly "hollow/distant" sound.

Thanks for doing your thread, it's interesting stuff. I'm using ready made 4'x2'x4" panels made by ATS. They are free standing (internal wood frame). My recordings really got a boost up when I started using these.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TBman

…I was reading here that omni mics should be set up closer to the source than cardioid. I'm going to experiment. That probably explains why I'm hearing a slightly "hollow/distant" sound.

Hi Barry
They can be set closer than omni-directional mics with less shifting tonal repercussions. But my experience taught me the venue makes a difference.

Paste Studios was doing live-remote shows using different mic arrays, but they did have quite a few performing acoustically around a single omni mic. It was at a music festival inside a trailer or RV, and there was a lot of room reflection to combat playing with a full width glass window behind the performers, and hard walls to their sides.

In my experimenting I find omni directional mics tend to display less proximity effects when distances change. But they can pick up room reflections the further you are from the source.

I've enjoyed some YouTube videos with Chris Thile, Aoife O'Donovan and Sarah Jarosz playing instruments and singing, where they were working a single large diaphragm Neumann u87 style mic in omni mode at Kennedy Center's Millennium Stage, live with an audience.

One stood in the center and the other two directly to the sides and as they sang, they only concentrated on achieving a good acoustic balance between vocals and instruments.