#1
|
|||
|
|||
Mic test - AT4050 OMNI vs KM184
After the last comparison, people here rightly suggested that the AT4050s could sound good in omni, rather than cardioid. So I recorded a practise with both again:
The KM184s spaced 12inches apart (slightly angled out to 14 fret and lower bout), 12 inches from the guitar. The 4050s were a little further back and wider - maybe 18 inches wide, 16 inches from guitar. As usual, it's a Carl Miner TNAG demo tune that I'm working on. |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Well, the omni AT4050s sounded good until I heard the KM184s, which (without hearing the actual guitar), sound exactly how I would expect that [Martin D] guitar to sound. Maybe it was the proximity due to the difference in patterns and distance, but they were my clear preference.
Nice playing, and I wish all demos were like this. Thanks.
__________________
"I know in the morning that it's gonna be good, when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
I'm listening with headphones and the KMs seemed to cut out a lot of the depth of the recording. The AT4050 mics made me feel as though I was in the same room with you.
I don't understand why you wouldn't use the cardioid setting though.
__________________
Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. Last edited by TBman; 02-25-2023 at 08:31 AM. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
This really isn't a comparison of omni vs cardioid so much as it's a comparison of Setup A vs Setup B.
As expected, a spaced cardioid pair a foot off the guitar yields a sound that minimizes the influence of the room compared to an omni pair 1.5 feet or so off the guitar. And the lower frequencies are more resonant in the spaced cardioid pair, that is also to be expected. For acoustic guitar-centric music where the guitar is front and center either alone or sharing the spotlight with the vocals, I will almost always choose cardioid. If the guitar is going to be part of a bigger mix that includes some instrument that reaches lower frequencies than the guitar, omni can be a good choice (provided the room doesn't make the recording sound too harsh) because sometimes a thinner sound sits better in the mix. tdlwhite, can you tell us something about the room dimensions and treatment?
__________________
Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I also own a pair of 4050's and I also find them much more pleasing in Omni than in Cardiod. Much more natural sounding. I would be very interested in learning what tdlwhite's feelings are, about which mics represents the true sound of his Guitars? Quote:
However, sometimes it is not about the difference between SDC & LDC, but rather the specific Characteristics of a particular mic. Cause I also love the sound of a U67 on acoustic guitar. O.K how about one more test? Use all four mics. Position the the Neumann's directly on top of each of the 4050's in Omni(so hopefully no phasing issues that way?). I wonder what that would produce? Or how about a mid side? With the 4050 in Fig 8, and the 184 on top? I have not done any tests like this myself. However, I once did a quick test with the 4050's on top of each other. One in cardiod and one in omni. Had a pleasant sound to it. Pretty much stop using the 4050's when I got my Schoeps pair. Great Demo! Keep em coming. |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Could be interesting to hear the omni's quite a bit closer to the guitar too, like six to eight inches. One cool thing omni is that is a lot less proximity effect so you get much closer before worrying about boom. I think in the classical world folks do a spaced pair further out because they're likely in a church or something and want that space's natural reverb baked in. In our little home recording spaces we're more likely avoiding having the room sound in there.
|
#7
|
|||||
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I shall likely do another (another) test as you said, with the 4050s/184s on top of each other. Fun! Quote:
Thanks everyone for the feedback/comments - all very good food for thought! Tom |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
I have a pair of Audio Technica AT4050 mics and they are very nice. When I have used them for guitar, I have tended to use them in omni mode, also. That way there is no proximity effect and because of that they can be located closer to the guitar, which provides a little extra something, at least for me when finger picking.
In the end, though, I have transitioned to decent quality small diaphragm condensers, in my case, Warm Audio WA-84 mics, which are cardoid mics. I enjoyed your playing, Tom! - Glenn
__________________
My You Tube Channel |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
I enjoyed your playing and this comparison.
I don't have anything bad to say about either version. Somehow, the AT4050s in omni mode seemed open and natural. Yet I felt a little more immersed in the recording with the KM184s. I would also enjoy hearing the omni on the 4050 closer in.
__________________
Alvarez: DY61 Huss and Dalton: DS Crossroads, 00-SP Kenny Hill: Heritage, Performance Larrivee: CS09 Matt Thomas Limited Taylor: 314ce, 356e, Baritone 8 Timberline: T60HGc |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
However, moving the KM184 back (even a bit further than the omni) may make the recordings more similar.
__________________
Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Both mic setups sound good. In fact, I don't much difference in the two, other than one being a bit more open sounding. Nice video, playing, and guitar.
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks! Yeah, the D41 is a beauty - both to play and to listen to. It's nice have the ability to capture it in reasonable form too! |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
updated recording with the 4050s in omni
Apologies for the possible double-post*, but after posting in show/tell, I realized that this thread had the earlier 4050 recording and might be worth updating with the new recording:
This is the AT4050s in omni, much closer to the guitar (closer than my KM184s, so mebbe 8-10 inches off the neck-join and 10-12 off the mid-lower-bout). I did add a little compression/verb here - which is my 'normal' post-processing VST work in Reaper (DAW). I like this sound - so I'm pleased that the comments in this thread and the old one prompted me to try more stuff with the AT 4050s! Thanks all! Tom *mods: if you need to delete one of the vids or posts, then I guess this one can go, and I'll reference the show/tell one? |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I've been recording at a distance in cardioid and I like the tone.
__________________
Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. |