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Old 05-26-2023, 07:10 PM
The Orb The Orb is offline
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Question Need a passing chord between E major and Bb major

It's a bluesy song in the key of E. I have a bridge that begins with a Bb major chord.

Of the transitional chords I've experimented with, an E augmented sounds best: L I N K

Any other suggestions?

Thank you!

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  #2  
Old 05-26-2023, 08:27 PM
BlueStarfish BlueStarfish is offline
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Hmm. B Major 7? (So, really, a modulation from E Major to B Major to Bb major? The B Major seems to need that major 7, which is A#/Bb, to make it work.)

Or maybe Db aug? It’s a kind of similar idea to the E aug you mentioned.

I can’t say how any of these sound on guitar — this comes from plinking on my keyboard.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:29 PM
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Changing to a new key of Bb major or just passing by? Depending perhaps a F passing chord.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:55 PM
backliner backliner is offline
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Cm7 - F7 - Bb
ii - V - I of Bb
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Old 05-26-2023, 10:45 PM
The Orb The Orb is offline
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All of your suggestions sound cool. Please keep them coming!
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:12 PM
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Ah, the tritone. The Devil's Interval. Tricky one, that.

Sorry, The Orb. I'm not feeling that E augmented going anywhere near B flat major.

backliner, I like where you're going with that secondary dominant sequence (ii V I) –– although E to Cm7 doesn't mesh for me. E --> C#m7, maybe, but that doesn't thread the tritone needle.

Or since we're going exactly "half" an octave, we could consider a secondary dominant sequence coming at it from the other way (the secondary dominant sequence comes first, I – IV – flat vii):

E – A – Dm – Bflat
I – IV – flat vii – ??? (in E) Not sure what to call B flat chord in the key of E.

That last jump from minor flat vii to ??? heaven knows what (B flat major, the flat 5 of E) is not as weird as it may look. It's just down a major third, and it only requires one note to change:

Dm: D F A
B flat maj: D F B flat –– almost as if the B flat note takes the chord to the new "home" tonality. I like that you step up to it by a half step, just as with any major tonality.

So that's my vote: E – A – Dm – B flat

You get a pleasing sequence of fifths (I – IV – flat vii) followed by a one-half-step change in one note to land on B flat. The key change really begins with the D minor, which is the flat vii, so is not really in the key of E, but is a suitable resolution from A. I'd find a way to land firmly on that D minor to give it some presence; then the change to B flat is easy on the ears.

Have fun with it.
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Last edited by b1j; 05-26-2023 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Orb View Post
All of your suggestions sound cool. Please keep them coming!
Is this music somthing that you are composing from scratch or are making an arrangement of an existing piece?
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:15 PM
stanron stanron is offline
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F or F7 is the obvious V of Bb so you could insert this at the end of the common sequence of

I vi IV V

or

E C#m A B7

and replace the B7 with F, ending up with

E C#m A F | Bb
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:39 PM
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and it's not just chord sequences but note leading within the chords (arragement of notes within each chord) if you want something that sounds decent and also if you had a single passing chord in mind or the use multiple intermediate chords (a progression) to get to the Bb.
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Is this music somthing that you are composing from scratch or are making an arrangement of an existing piece?
Thanks for your interest in my musical dilemma.

I'm trying to segue from a 12-bar blues song in the key of E major to a Miles Davis tune called "Corrado." I think its chord progression is Bb, G, to E.

L I N K
to the song
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Old 05-27-2023, 12:01 AM
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"Miles Davis tune called "Corrado"

Ouch!
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Old 05-27-2023, 07:12 AM
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If you are beginning a different tune when you arrive at Bb, then Bb doesn't have to take the role of "borrowed chord" in the progression, and you can get there pretty much how you please, speaking strictly of chord progression. But your melody voicing through whatever chord progression you use will need to be chosen with care, so as to alert the listener's ear that we have now arrived at a new destination. If not, when you get to the E in the new progression, the ear may believe it has gone back to the previous tune.

Or, you can make the change as a wholly unanticipated dynamic jump, complete with energetic instrumental antics.

Or even other stuff. It's a bit endless, really...ain't this fun though?!
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Old 05-28-2023, 05:14 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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D#dim7 = Adim7 = vii of both E and Bb. So that works as a "pivot" chord - shared by both keys.

Alternatively, F7 and B7 should both work. F7 will obviously be a surprise in E major, but B7 delays the surprise to the following Bb chord!

Or course you can combine the two as F7b5 = B7b5 (whichever note in the bass you like).

If you want something more subtle or jazzy, try Ebm7-F7. Ebm7=D#m7, which is not too far from key of E, and the other neat thing is that Ebm7-F7 will lead the ear to expect Bb minor, so Bb major is a nice surprise.

Alternatively, if you want something more rocky/dramatic, how about F#-G#-Bb. Major chords ascending in whole steps!

(You hear this in reverse in the Kaiser Chiefs' I Predict a Riot, which jumps from Ab major to D major (tritone, same as E to Bb), but then descends via C and Bb to get back to Ab. Listen out at 2:06 in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE. That's D immediately following Ab.)

IOW, you can get from E to Bb the same way: downwards: D > C > Bb. But IMO that's somewhat disconcerting (suits the above song, but maybe not yours ). The "jazzier" alternative is to work through the cycle of 5ths, although that gives you a rather long-winded transition:

E - E7 - A7 - D7 - G7 - C7 - F7 - Bb

Or (more subtle): E - Em7 - A7 - Dm7 - G7 - Cm7 - F7 - Bb
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Old 05-28-2023, 06:42 AM
The Orb The Orb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
D#dim7 = Adim7 = vii of both E and Bb. So that works as a "pivot" chord - shared by both keys.

Alternatively, F7 and B7 should both work. F7 will obviously be a surprise in E major, but B7 delays the surprise to the following Bb chord!

Or course you can combine the two as F7b5 = B7b5 (whichever note in the bass you like).

If you want something more subtle or jazzy, try Ebm7-F7. Ebm7=D#m7, which is not too far from key of E, and the other neat thing is that Ebm7-F7 will lead the ear to expect Bb minor, so Bb major is a nice surprise.

Alternatively, if you want something more rocky/dramatic, how about F#-G#-Bb. Major chords ascending in whole steps!

(You hear this in reverse in the Kaiser Chiefs' I Predict a Riot, which jumps from Ab major to D major (tritone, same as E to Bb), but then descends via C and Bb to get back to Ab. Listen out at 2:06 in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE. That's D immediately following Ab.)

IOW, you can get from E to Bb the same way: downwards: D > C > Bb. But IMO that's somewhat disconcerting (suits the above song, but maybe not yours ). The "jazzier" alternative is to work through the cycle of 5ths, although that gives you a rather long-winded transition:

E - E7 - A7 - D7 - G7 - C7 - F7 - Bb

Or (more subtle): E - Em7 - A7 - Dm7 - G7 - Cm7 - F7 - Bb
Thanks, Jon PR. Sounds like you have libraries of musical knowledge in your head.

I've been trying to expand my horizons with this Howard Morgen book, but it's been rough L I N K

Of your many suggestions, I like the E to B7 to Bb because it sounds good and is easy to do.

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  #15  
Old 05-28-2023, 08:59 AM
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Some suggestions may seem right in theory but sound awful in practice. When transitioning usually the shortest way
(especially when you have lyrics to keep moving along) is likely to be best, so a transition chord (perhaps two) instead
of a multi chord progression. Also individual arrangement of notes within a given chord for best voice leading is an important
consideration.
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Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
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"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
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