Singing while fingerpicking lessons?

[the duck]

Not sure if this is allowed here, I can remove if necessary.

I'm an average guitar player, interested in getting some zoom lessons on how to fingerpick. I sing and play, and sometimes struggle with competing rhythms of voice/left hand/right hand...

Examples of what I aspire to would be akin to a singer-songwriter who goes by the moniker The Tallest Man on Earth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTK6z5BkYCo

And old, folk Dylan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJCmgKRszYM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox42QVcfTtI

My fingerpicking currently is pretty rudimentary. Looking for potentially once every two weeks getting some guidance from someone who is comfortable singing and fingerpicking. Feel free to private message me if you're interested.

Again, if this isn't allowed here, let me know and I'll remove. Thanks!

[Silly Moustache]

Hi Mr Duck,

One of the aspects of guitar accompaniment that I see a lot os too much, or busy guitar work. It occurs frequently when playing with a pick or with fingerstyle.

One thing that creates tension, interest, and emotion in playing is ..... space ....

As much as we adore these wondrous wooden instruments, when singing and telling the story, the vocals are the priority, the guitar is "accompanying"

I would be delighted to arrange a zoom meeting with you to see and discuss how I might help you.

Some details :

[Robin, Wales]

I'm struggling with 4g tonight so I can't point you towards YouTube links unfortunately.

But I would suggest that you start with some very simple Travis picking on easy (but great!) songs.

For Travis picking you have an alternating bass played with the thumb, and then either one or two fingers pinching with or playing between the thumb strikes. Anything fancier is achieved through hammer ons or pull offs. Some song backing can sound really complex but is usually pretty simple once you break it down. The "trick" is to just let everything flow behind your singing.

Have a look at "The speed of the sound of loneliness" by John Prine. There are a number of YouTube clips of him singing the song. He uses an alternating thumb and one finger (so did Travis). The chord sequence and melody of the song are very simple and repetitive. And the Travis picking could not be more straightforward. The only fancy bits are bass runs on the chord changes and a hammer on in the lead "break". And it is all much slower than the Dylan clips you posted.

Once you get the speed of the sound of loneliness wired, you will have Dylan, TVZ and loads of other singer songwriters sussed. Because it is all fundamentally the same.

[Jdogblues]

Tom Felmann has a good lesson




if that doesnt work heres the link


https://youtu.be/WuTiEksDTDI

[the duck]

Thanks everyone,
Much appreciated! Mr. Moustache, I may reach out to you in the coming weeks.
Robin, thanks for the tips - I have been doing some Travis picking, but not that particular song. I'll definitely look it up to watch his picking - Nancy Griffith does a good version of that song too.
And Jdogblues - thanks for that link, good info to have for singing and playing struggles. It's weird, some songs come very easily for singing, while others are super hard by comparison (at least for me) - and the guitar part can be easy to play... Something about the beat of the singing vs. the beat of the rhythm can really throw me off - walking and chewing gum!
Thanks again everyone!

I'm going to try to explain how I learned this, but I am a beginner so I'm sure I didn't do it "right," but I'm okay with how I'm managing at the moment.

The first song I learned to finger pick is Helplessly Hoping. It has easy chords and only about 5 or 6 of them. Also, I just use my thumb and first finger, or sometimes add the second finger. My picking patterns are super simple!

If you are strumming a song, you know that when you change chords you emphasize the root. Same is true for picking. Instead of strums to fill up the measure, you have have your picking pattern, then you change chords and do the same with the new chord. I was having trouble figuring out how to fit the lyrics in, so I just played along with the recording. Once I could play and sing with the recording, I knew where the fit the words in and then I could do it without.

The trick is to pick a simple song, not a lot of crazy chords, a simple picking pattern when you're starting out. You can always get more complicated later. I use a similar picking pattern for almost every song; as long as it sounds ok, I don't care if it's not the "official one."

A couple of other good songs you could start with are Danny's Song by Loggins and Messina or Landslide by Fleetwood Mac.

That is my unprofessional, novice-level explanation. Hope it helps! Otherwise, you will be in good hands with Silly Moustache.

[the duck]

Thanks Janine,
I'm with you when it comes to simplicity - like skateboarding on a sidewalk before a halfpipe! I also do a form of picking that is primarily my right thumb and index finger. I can get some good sounds from this, but it lacks a little of the rolling-complexity of more advanced fingerpicking, which is what I'm practicing, getting middle and ring finger involved - and a very clumsy little finger...

Don't know if you've ever shared a video of your playing, but I'd love to see how your two hands work while playing Helplessly Hoping (great song!)! No worries if you'd rather not, I appreciate the tips!

No, I am not a video sharer... Sorry. I don't do any type of social media. I'm like Banksy, creating my art icognito. Lol!

But your left hand does exactly the same thing as when you're strumming. Only the right hand is different.

I did have a thought about the left hand. Try out a few different voicings for each chord to find the ones that will be easiest to transition between. That will leave more brain cycles available for the right hand. I try to find the moveable chord shapes that will work for the song so all I have to do is slide my left hand up and down the fretboard as opposed to having to pick up my fingers and reposition for each chord. It doesn't always work out perfectly but I try to find the most efficient chord transitions and also what will sound best. Otherwise left hand is the same as when you are strumming. And you can do the same thing for a strumming song too.

[the duck]

Haha - No worries, I hear you. I'm not a social media person either - or a cell phone person - true dinosaur...

I will look into the CSNY song and Landslide to see if I can simplify and work through them. Thanks very much!

[jontewright]

Originally Posted by Jdogblues

Tom Felmann has a good lesson




if that doesnt work heres the link


https://youtu.be/WuTiEksDTDI

I hadn't seen this before, thanks for sharing.

Tom's the man!

[Sev112]

Another thing is to choose songs, or transpose or capo songs, that mean the chord changes are simple. because changing from for example a G root chord (using index middle and ring fingers) to a standard D chord is actually quite a big wrist rotation and movement with fingers moving a lot and so potentially inaccurate and messy

But you can play G, D/F#, Em7, Bm7, A7, in exactly the same wrist position without having to move or rotate your wrist with just one or 2 at most finger changes - and the key to this is that you are finger picking and not strumming - so you don’t have to pick all the strings

Ie
32003x
20023x
02003x
(0orx)2023x
(0orx)0202x

Helps if you fret the G on the low E string with your ring finger and not your index finger
You’d be amazed how many songs or most of songs are covered by those chords. And even adding the CMaj or Cmaj7 (x O or 3)3200 is pretty easy

That gives you lots of chords available to you with minimal hand and finger movements leaving you to focus on singing.

[Jdogblues]

Originally Posted by jontewright

I hadn't seen this before, thanks for sharing.

Tom's the man!

No prob! Tom is great!


My other 2 cents....in my experience the singing and playing gets easier and easier with each new tune.

Extra 2 cents.....your guitar playing will improve. Singing helps me remember the guitar parts and where I'm at in the song.

[Coler]

Originally Posted by janinep7

No, I am not a video sharer... Sorry. I don't do any type of social media. I'm like Banksy, creating my art icognito. Lol!

But your left hand does exactly the same thing as when you're strumming. Only the right hand is different.

Not quite though, in as much as you are going to pick individual strings with your fingers, you don’t need to cover/mute all the strings of the chords shape you are strumming. You only fret the strings you want to pick as and when you want to pick them.

One of the things that really makes good finger picking is the ability to fret the notes you need when you need them. It really opens up the possibilities up and down the fret board. That and the ornamentation (slides, flicks, pulls off and hammer ons et).

[Sev112]

Also you get to apply vibrato on individual strings when finger picking that you can’t easily do when strumming