#46
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To the extent that we understand the universe as we see it. I do agree with you, but everything we observe is biased by our understanding of our methods. How do we know that we are observing the full picture and interpreting it correctly? |
#47
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https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sc...se-2023-02-22/ |
#48
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But another theory is that is these galaxies could also mean that the universe is older than previously thought .. We just do not know They mention this at about the 2:00 + mark
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#49
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And actually, at one second after that beginning, we DO have a good idea what was going on. It was all very hot and dense, and expanding and therefore cooling. In the first few minutes, it was hot enough to fuse the hydrogen nuclei into helium nuclei. (Those nuclei are obviously there, but their generation is still somewhat theoretical, and definitely technical.) But after those first few minutes it cooled enough so that fusion stopped. We know this because we know from experiments how hot it has to be for that fusion, and we know the resulting abundance of hydrogen and helium. After about 400,000 years (IIRC) it was cool enough for those nuclei to capture the speedy electrons, and the first atoms formed, AND the Universe became transparent. We can view this now as the cosmic microwave background. It took some more time for the first stars to form (via gravity), which generated the heavier elements and supernovas spread those elements throughout space. And here we are! (Oh, did I skip a step? )
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#50
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It can't be much older. The number is being refined and refined. As I mentioned, seven independent methods of estimating the age of the Universe all converge on around 14 billion years. (Not long ago, the best estimate was 13.8 billion.)
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#51
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BTW, Michio Kaku is a science sensationalist.
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#52
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Catchy phrase . Does that mean he is wrong ? Even so seems to me other astrophysicists have noted it may require a rethink of age.
Then there is this https://sci.esa.int/web/xmm-newton/-...we%20think.%22
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#53
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I think a key point mentioned in a post above is “the age of the visible universe“.
We have no way to measure what may (or may not) be beyond the visible universe. For all we know the Big Bang was just a tiny local phenomenon in a much vaster than vast greater universe. We only think it is big, because we really are so small…. |
#54
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Also mentioned here: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...rse-180981689/ I haven't seen anyone suggesting it's time yet to re-think the age of the universe. I've seen some...let's just say...less than credible sources on Twitter trying to sensationalize these findings and say "science was wrong!" to their own agendas, but all that does is betray a lack of understanding of what science actually is. |
#55
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It means he exaggerates and sensationalizes.
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"An analysis of 13.5 thousand million-year-old X-rays, captured by ESA's XMM-Newton satellite, has shown that either the Universe may be older than astronomers had thought or that mysterious, undiscovered 'iron factories' litter the early Universe."The X-rays in question are coming from APM 8279+5255, which is a quasar, that is, a young galaxy, and it has considerably more iron than expected, which suggests it must be older than previously thought.... or there's a source of more iron than we figured. So where is this iron coming from? Prior to the formation of early galaxies, the iron must come from the earliest exploding stars, which create iron at the end of their life cycle. It has long been thought that the earliest stars must be much more massive than later stars due to the higher density of certain regions way back in time. [Edit to add: More massive stars live and die much more quickly.) The article makes a brief mention of this possibility: "In the shorter term, ESA is launching INTEGRAL, a gamma-ray-detecting satellite, in October 2002. It will observe exploding stars to study the formation of chemical elements and may explain the anomalous iron observations."These first stars have yet to be observed or measured, and they are indeed one of the as yet unsolved problems in astrophysics. But I'm thinking that they will provide the answer here as opposed to significantly extending the age of our Universe.
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#56
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"Our world overflows with peculiar, otherwise senseless shapes and behaviors that function only to promote victory in the great game of mating and reproduction. No other world but Darwin's would fill nature with such curiosities that weaken species and hinder good design but bring success where it really matters in Darwin's universe alone -- passing more genes to future generations."Then there are also points made by Stuart Kaufman in his book "At Home in the Universe." "Without [natural selection], we reason, there would be nothing but incoherent disorder. I shall argue... that this idea is wrong. For, as we shall see, the emerging sciences of complexity begin to suggest that the order is not all accidental, that vast veins of spontaneous order lie at hand. Laws of complexity spontaneously generate much of the order of the natural world. It is only then that selection comes into play, further molding and refining. Such veins... have not been entirely unknown, yet they are just beginning to emerge as powerful new clues to the origins and evolution of life."
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#57
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@KevWind, here's an article from February which goes into a ton of readable detail on the topic of what Webb does and doesn't tell us at this point. It may be out of date at this point, but a good overview of what Webb (to that point) had and hadn't called into question.
https://www.wired.com/story/no-the-j...ken-cosmology/ I'm not saying it couldn't be the case that the universe is older than we thought. Any knowledge we have is subject to new evidence, and that's of course the power of science. Always questioning itself, always adding to the corpus of knowledge. But for me it would take more than supposition or the possibility of an older universe to say "We just don't know". There are multiple pieces of strong evidence to support the 13.8 billion year age...at this point. I think we need more to overturn the current model. This resonates for me, from the linked article: Quote:
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#58
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All I know is that time definitely moves faster the less of it that you have left.
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#59
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To minimize this effect, you'll want to stay in the lowlands since a clock on top of a tall mountain moves relatively faster than a clock at the base of that mountain. (OK, the difference is barely detectable, but hey. )
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#60
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Thats going to be my excuse from now on
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |