archtop as a flat top acoustic

[eyesore]

I am looking at archtops again. Interested in a wide neck[1 3/4 nut] and being able to plug into my Fishman Soloamp,[it's like a PA system, not an electric guitar amp]. I also am looking for a single pickup or some way of amplifying . Two pickups get in the way of fingerpicking ... Is there anything out there? Thanks .

[Steve DeRosa]

If you've got the bucks there are several Eastman models that will fill the bill, or if you're on a budget the Godin Kingpin - which has the fairly substantial 1.72" neck of the Seagull mini-jumbos, so nut width may not be an issue - provides pro-level performance for pocket change. FYI fellow AGF'er Jeff Matz (AKA mr. beaumont) has some great stuff on YouTube using his, so if you have any doubts about just how good these little 16" no-frills jazzboxes can be, I'd strongly recommend you give him a listen...

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

If you've got the bucks there are several Eastman models that will fill the bill, or if you're on a budget the Godin Kingpin - which has the fairly substantial 1.72" neck of the Seagull mini-jumbos, so nut width may not be an issue - provides pro-level performance for pocket change. FYI fellow AGF'er Jeff Matz (AKA mr. beaumont) has some great stuff on YouTube using his, so if you have any doubts about just how good these little 16" no-frills jazzboxes can be, I'd strongly recommend you give him a listen...

Good info Steve !I will check out these,Thanks !

[Robin, Wales]

I have the Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop (no pick-up). They don't make these any more but they do come up second hand. It appears that the very early versions had a glued neck. The more recent version are bolt on, and better for it.

The 1.72" nut is a Graphtech Tusq one. You could easily get a wider string spacing if you made your own nut.

I play mine as a "flat top". I sing/play Carter style / bluegrass / Americana songs with a flat pick and Travis pick song accompaniment too (thumb pick and metal fingerpicks). I have the guitar set up with medium Martin monel strings and a rosewood bridge.

I really love this guitar. I have gigged with it using just a mic'. An archtop has a strong forward throw of sound and no big round boomy sound hole, so it is really easy and effective to use a mic' for it on stage, rather than a pick up.

[mr. beaumont]

What kind of music will you be playing? You mention fingerpicking...

[slaminsam]

I bought an Eastman 803ce earlier this year. I was looking for a Jazz box. It has a Set pickup and knobs on the body so I was not thinking of it acoustically, Since I was going to use it for Jazz those were not a concern. But much to my surprise it's a killer acoustic guitar. Great for anything that you can throw its way. 1 3/4" and if you look hard enough you may be able to get a great deal on one.

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

What kind of music will you be playing? You mention fingerpicking...

Mostly Bluesy jazz . and is ing too.

[mr. beaumont]

You might really dig the Kingpin then-- one pickup, "right" aesthetic.

What you might run in to some issues with is the sound of an electric guitar pickup through an acoustic amp. Sometimes it just sounds dry and brittle...there are workarounds, though.

I have not encountered any archtops with piezos or the like that attempt to capture the acoustic sound of the archtop that were any good. Archtops are weird...their unplugged tone is often VASTLY different than their plugged in sound. But if you can learn to work with that, it can be very enjoyable.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

What you might run in to some issues with is the sound of an electric guitar pickup through an acoustic amp. Sometimes it just sounds dry and brittle...there are workarounds, though.

I'm curious what workarounds are available. I gig a Strat through a Fishman Loudbox Mini at farmers markets. I can usually get an acceptable tone, but not as touch sensitive and nuanced as through a tube amp. What can I do to improve the response?

[RLetson]

Archtop voices are going to vary as much as flat-tops' do, and for a variety of reasons--carved versus pressed top, floating versus set-in pickup, size (15/16/17-inch), bracing, and general build quality.

To my ear, an optimal acoustic archtop has a solid carved top and a floating pickup--but other ears will obviously differ. If I had to take just one guitar to a gig, and it had to be an archtop, it would be my one-of-a-kind Tom Crandall (17-inch, all-carved, redwood-over-walnut). Nobody else has that option, though, so my second choice would probably be my Eastman 805 CE, strung with phosphor bronze, though my Loar LH-600 is not exactly chopped liver. (I've sampled lots of other low-cost archtops, and the Loars are the only ones that make my personal cut.)

But my favorite not-a-flat-top, can-manage-almost-anything choices are either a Selmer-style--I have a Shelley Park Elan--or a National M-1 tricone.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Bluemonk

I'm curious what workarounds are available. I gig a Strat through a Fishman Loudbox Mini at farmers markets. I can usually get an acceptable tone, but not as touch sensitive and nuanced as through a tube amp. What can I do to improve the response?

If you are willing to go with a electric guitar sound (which, why fight it, archtops sound great as electric guitars, and honestly, unless you're playing big band swing rhythm, a flat top is usually going to be the better choice as an acoustic guitar) then you have several options, but the idea is basically going to involve a preamp pedal.

I use a Tech21 "Blonde" to give my very dry (but very loud and very lightweight) solid state amp a Fender like quality. And it gets probably 90% of the way there. There's cheaper and more expensive options, the Joyo American Sound is essentially the same pedal in a cheaper housing, and it'll do the trick for less than half the cost.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

If you are willing to go with a electric guitar sound (which, why fight it, archtops sound great as electric guitars, and honestly, unless you're playing big band swing rhythm, a flat top is usually going to be the better choice as an acoustic guitar) then you have several options, but the idea is basically going to involve a preamp pedal.

I use a Tech21 "Blonde" to give my very dry (but very loud and very lightweight) solid state amp a Fender like quality. And it gets probably 90% of the way there. There's cheaper and more expensive options, the Joyo American Sound is essentially the same pedal in a cheaper housing, and it'll do the trick for less than half the cost.

Thanks!

And in order to reach the minimum number of characters, thanks again!

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

If you are willing to go with a electric guitar sound (which, why fight it, archtops sound great as electric guitars, and honestly, unless you're playing big band swing rhythm, a flat top is usually going to be the better choice as an acoustic guitar) then you have several options, but the idea is basically going to involve a preamp pedal.

I use a Tech21 "Blonde" to give my very dry (but very loud and very lightweight) solid state amp a Fender like quality. And it gets probably 90% of the way there. There's cheaper and more expensive options, the Joyo American Sound is essentially the same pedal in a cheaper housing, and it'll do the trick for less than half the cost.

Jeff, are you familiar with the Tech21 Fly Rig? Is it basically the Tech21 Blonde with added effects?

[eyesore]

This all sounds pretty complicated. I’ll have to keep looking and trying guitars.my basic setup is ,guitar and amp.I don’t care for all the pedals.It gets confusing.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by eyesore

...my basic setup is guitar and amp. I don’t care for all the pedals. It gets confusing.

FWIW you can put together a serviceable, dedicated guitar-cable-amp package for less than you think, starting with the Godin Kingpin; while IME tube amps are the ideal for a guitar of this type, something with sufficient clean power and headroom (for dynamic/frequency range rather than sheer volume) is a rarity in the under-$300 price range - I use a Bugera V5 1x8" for coffeehouse/small-room gigs, and the Monoprice Stage Right 15W 1x12" is a favorite among the TDPRI guys as a low-rent substitute for the Blues Junior - there are a number of decent new/used mid-powered, no-frills analog solid-state amps in this bracket that will get the job done. I'd wait for the Memorial Day sales - in both the guitar and amp departments (especially the latter) there are still some great bargains to be had if you shop wisely...