The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

View Poll Results: What to do with Journey OC660M classical carbon?
Keep and learn on it 1 10.00%
Keep, but buy another wood classical? 1 10.00%
Return and buy another guitar 8 80.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-06-2023, 09:07 AM
Carbontunes Carbontunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 5
Question Bought a Journey OC660M (classical), could use some advice

I bought the Journey OC660M through Amazon, so I have 2 more weeks to figure out if I keep or return it. The main issue is that I'm such a beginner, I can't test the full potential of the guitar... hence I need advice. I generally like Nylon strings and the warm/muted tones of classical guitars. I have a Yamaha C40 in another city. After multiple trips to Sam Ash and Guitar Centers, I realized for now steel string is not for me.

Few cons/observations of the Journey Classical:
1. 1 7/8″ nut, BUT D-shaped neck
2. Bass notes sound louder than the higher notes - other reviews have caught on to this
3. For double the price, not as rich and not as loud sounding as wood classical for $700-$1000 (but also less maintenance)

The D-shaped neck actually makes it harder to play than on C-shaped classicals with larger nut width, but since this is my only guitar (maybe that's a good thing? Train me on tough first? All the prior is on immediate comparison to other classical guitars in a store. When I'm just playing outright at home, I just adjust to the D-shape and the less rich/loud sound (live in apt, actually helps). I don't really foresee traveling with this guitar but it's just so cool that it's Carbon Fiber and breaks down into 2 pieces. It is quite comfy and small to play with, I was getting exhausted holding the Yamaha C40 because of size. (They are the same weight though)

Here are some reviews/videos to give you a flavor of what I'm seeing:
1. https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...=618856&page=2
2. https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...=571719&page=3
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1riY...StephanieJones
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTyg...RamziElRumbero

Though it's not as rich as wood, it actually sounds decently close to true classical. (tone sounds better than 4th link in person)

Should I be learning on Journey OC660M or get a regular classical guitar? Is it worth it to keep $1.5k locked up in this instrument? I might keep it for life.. don't really need to worry as much about maintaining Carbon Fiber? The cities I frequent are either very humid & hot, or cold. The real issue is #2, of bass notes sounding much louder than higher notes due to the sound whole. Minor issue is the D-neck. (I'm also not playing classical music persay, any songs just using the classical tone )

Just having 2nd thoughts, I would appreciate any advice/your thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-06-2023, 09:41 AM
jdinco jdinco is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,398
Default

If you are already having second thoughts.....it will only get worse. Return it and find the guitar you don't want to put down.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-06-2023, 10:21 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,188
Default

Are you going to be doing a lot of travelling with this guitar? If not, I see no need to compromise on a "travel" guitar.

I listened to the two videos, I thought the first sounded great, the one of the guy playing "Romance" was kind of dead and clicky sounding. If that's closer to what the instrument actually sounds like, I don't think I'd ever get used to it.
__________________
Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-06-2023, 10:21 AM
David Eastwood's Avatar
David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdinco View Post
If you are already having second thoughts.....it will only get worse. Return it and find the guitar you don't want to put down.
I agree. It sounds, from your description, that there are some fundamental issues for you with this guitar which will be tough to get by.

I’d return it, and rethink.
__________________
Martin 0-16NY
Emerald Amicus
Emerald X20
Cordoba Stage

Some of my tunes: https://youtube.com/user/eatswodo
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-06-2023, 11:22 AM
PassingThru PassingThru is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 530
Default

If you’re having second thoughts at all and can return it, return it quickly. Then find something you totally. Guitar playing should be fun, not regrettable.
__________________
Martin 000-16
McPherson Sable
Fender Player Telecaster
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-06-2023, 11:24 AM
CoastStrings CoastStrings is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Central Coast of California
Posts: 385
Default

It sounds like:
  • You prefer nylon strings.
  • You find that the wider nut-width of a classical is more comfortable.
  • You need a travel instrument. (And that will often mean compromising)

Recommendations:
  • Return the Journey.
  • Buy a Yamaha SLG200NW, a good pair of headphones, and a Yamaha THR5A amp for travel.
  • Buy 1-2 modest classical guitars for your home base and focus on your studies.

Last edited by CoastStrings; 06-06-2023 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-06-2023, 12:25 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,398
Default

Not sure if you are looking for suggestions, but I found some of the Cordobas to be a nice compromise on nut/neck width with a great tone. THey are not CF though. Curious, why did you rule out steel strings?
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-06-2023, 03:15 PM
KevinH's Avatar
KevinH KevinH is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 3,344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbontunes View Post
... I don't really foresee traveling with this guitar...
Hey Carbontunes- Welcome to the forum.

The main advantages of a CF guitar are:
1. Great for traveling to places with wild humidity or temp swings
2. You live in an area where humidity is an issue
3. You just like the sound

It doesn't really sound like the Journey is meeting any of those for you, unless your local humidity is an issue. And the neck doesn't seem to fit you. So, more reasons to go than stay.

I have a Journey OF660 (steel string travel guitar). It, like your guitar, has more emphasis in the bass end than the treble. I like it for that, and the CF for travel. But if I weren't going to use it for travel I probably wouldn't have it.

You might consider other CF nylon-string guitars instead. Emerald's X7 for instance. And probably others. You might be able to try one out by looking in this thread:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=646425
to see if there is someone close by.

Given your forum name you really do need to have a CF guitar, right?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-06-2023, 08:36 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,667
Default

I have an Emerald X7 Nylon that I used for quite a while for learning how to play Nylon.

I'm not sure how the Journey is in comparison but I suspect it is on the quieter side compared to a normal wood classical.

My X7 definitely is. The downside to this aside from being quieter is that I found it makes it a little more challenging to learn the right hand dynamics and tone control available in Nylon as you don't have the same range available to you.

But it made a great guitar to take to lessons and the extra resilience is nice for practicing. Nicer classicals are definitely lighter built than a standard steel string. I also have found the carbon tuning stability is a nice bonus for nylon as well.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-07-2023, 04:29 AM
Norsepicker Norsepicker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 212
Default

If it's the classical with a collapsible neck I'd keep it if you have any plans to travel. I have the steel string and I love it for that, I can put it in the overhead and I can put clothes with it to travel with. I keep it in the trunk of my car in a case and always have a guitar with me. No it doesn't have the sound of a wood guitar, but it's close enough to not bother me when I play it. I've taken it to Hawaii and all over the country.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-07-2023, 06:39 PM
Carbontunes Carbontunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post
I have an Emerald X7 Nylon that I used for quite a while for learning how to play Nylon. I'm not sure how the Journey is in comparison but I suspect it is on the quieter side compared to a normal wood classical. But it made a great guitar to take to lessons and the extra resilience is nice for practicing. Nicer classicals are definitely lighter built than a standard steel string. I also have found the carbon tuning stability is a nice bonus for nylon as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdinco View Post
If you are already having second thoughts.....it will only get worse. Return it and find the guitar you don't want to put down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Eastwood View Post
I agree. It sounds, from your description, that there are some fundamental issues for you with this guitar which will be tough to get by. IÂ’d return it, and rethink.
Is it just me or does anyone else find classical/nylon strings warmer and richer? This might be a personal preference but the brightness on acoustics is I guess jarring to my ears/not my style? Also my fingers are sensitive to steel strings cutting into them even after calluses from initial play. I probably could get used to it, but I will happily pick up the nylon string and play, the steel strings I would just never touch. Huh, I expected most people to say that I'm just a beginner and I would get used to the guitar. I'm now torn even more, I was actually leaning on keeping it. Is this a rule of thumb, that if you have misgivings on a guitar it's probably not the right one? I've played piano before, and I've gone through this whole process for that.


In a bit of a conundrum now:
1. I like Nylon strings, and for Carbon Fiber, the only other viable option is Emerald.. but those are now running ~$4k with the classical headstock. Not to mention the videos of the Emerald Nylon strings sound more metalicky? Klos nylon sounds even worse. And at this point rather not custom order from Europe - there is no returnability (could sell, but its a hassle) Any other suggestions on Carbon Fiber Nylon?
2. Another discovery on Journey CF nylon: it sounds good using my fingers. Using a pick it sounds terrible! (when fingerstyle, and not strumming). Do any of you notice the difference between using fingers vs pick?

Do I need carbon fiber? hmm not sure: what happens if I take the guitar to the park and it rains? I also travel to Florida a lot (I don't have to take the guitar since I have a Yamaha C40 there), but there is humidity down south. It is easy with it breaking down into overhead luggage that I do have optionality to take it wherever. I live up north so in the winter it's very dry with heat on. Not sure if other forum members have experienced any brittleness with the heat/dryness/lack of humidity? I ended up buying a digital piano so I don't have to deal with tuning an acoustic piano -> goal is minimizing maintenance/ongoing upkeep on instruments that just last for a long time. I also think carbon fiber is just cool, and the black color + breaking down into 2 pieces for flights is useful.

Use case: I noticed I play the guitar most when I keep it next to my office desk at home, I just sit on my office chair and play (which lends itself to only smaller guitar sizes). This is a small guitar and so that works well. My Yamaha C40 would not work for that setup. I'm not tied to 2" nut width, honestly fine anywhere from 1 1/2" to 2". The Taylor Academy 12e-N sounded terrible at one of the stores though. Cordoba C9 next to Journey was louder of course, and sounded only slightly better (will try again with a friend who plays guitar). Yamaha CG-TA sounded good, but it was big. Thanks for the suggestion on Yamaha SLG200NW, I tried it, but not for me. I'd rather go with no instrument than use it.
Any suggestions on other smaller-sized wood guitars to check out this weekend?

Thanks for all of your input, though I'm torn now, the additional insight and nuance was very helpful!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-08-2023, 06:47 AM
ac ac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,787
Default

Maybe these have potential:

Leviora
https://leviora-guitars.de/en/guitars/c-series/
Probably more expensive.


Dlutowski
https://www.artluthier.com/en/carbon-fiber-guitars/
Less expensive and from the original country for classical (nylon) guitars.



Dlutowski
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajWwTzGwaEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CouUKI0UiGo

Leviora
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D70Ngu3ot8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB5NoRg8K64
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-08-2023, 07:22 PM
btbliatout btbliatout is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 158
Default

@Carbontunes

I just replied to a related thread on the classical section. I have the exact same background as you when I started looking into carbon fiber. I was deep enough into classical guitar to know I was committed, but still so so very young in my guitar journey (still am).

My humble opinion is that carbon fiber doesn't provide a good acoustic nylon instrument. With pickups and an amp, sure. Just acoustically? No, they are quiet. That doesn't mean they can't be great be rugged travel/practice instruments. It just means you can't take it into a concert hall and do a recital without mic'ing up.

Knowing what I know now, I think I'd probably not have purchased my X20 nylon. I love it for its ruggedness, but it's too quiet. And if I plug in with it...well, my Godin Grand Concert Multiac Duet Ambience has a much better plugged in tone (to my ears anyway), so if I want to plug in, I use my Godin. Would I return my X20 now that I have it though (f I could)? Nope. Nah. It gets all of my attention during the summer and winter (the bad humidity seasons), and it's worthwhile from a practice standpoint.

If you're more concerned with having a rugged practice instrument on which to grow with, keep your Journey. Take it EVERYWHERE, and ALWAYS leave it out of its case. But if you're concerned about getting the best tone you can afford, go hunting for a wood one. It may take a while, but sooner or later a reasonably priced instrument will show up within a 100 mile radius that you can put your hands on, and it'll feel and sound magical.

I saw the Yamaha SLG200N recommended earlier in the thread. I have a distaste for it. I own one, the W (wide) version, so I'm not speaking from nowhere. It has a distasteful amount of low-end. You have to turn the bass down on it's internal controls to zero, and on top of that, put a 100Hz low cut filter to get rid of a huge amount of BOOM. After which it has a lot of high frequency hiss that you also have to filter out too, which dulls the tone. - Now some folks no longer hear the higher frequencies, so that hiss isn't noticeable for many, but it's unfortunately obnoxiously loud for me. But...I still keep it around...because...it's so dagnammit convenient. Since it doesn't have a top, it's very climate resistant too.

If I were in your shoes, I'd hunt for a wood guitar in the $400-$800 price point. If you're patient, you'll find one that really resonates, and feels really comfortable for a price you can afford. My 2 cents anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-09-2023, 01:09 AM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 573
Default

I agree with btbliatout about the general quietness of carbon fiber nylon string guitars. This has been described by some of us as "lack of projection".

I must admit that personally I only have experience with Emerald nylon string guitars.
The Dlutowski sounds rather good in the videos. Blackbird also made good sounding nylon guitars back in the day. So it is not impossible.

My Emerald X20 nylon started projecting well after I put Thomastik rope core strings on it, but now of course it does not sound quite like a nylon guitar anymore.
I have played the X20 that way in a small hall without amplification. It was at a memorial service with a respectfully silent audience but still, everything was clearly audible at the back of the hall.
__________________
Emerald X30
Emerald X20 Nylon
Emerald X7 Nylon
Rainsong Smokey SMH
Outdoor Guitalele
Taylor 522e 12-fret ✝
Gitane DG-560 nylon ✝
Alhambra 3C CW
Eastman AR910CE
Recording King RM-991 tricone resonator
Recording King RK-G25 6-string banjo
Thomann Irish Bouzouki M1089
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-25-2023, 07:09 PM
Carbontunes Carbontunes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btbliatout View Post
@Carbontunes
If I were in your shoes, I'd hunt for a wood guitar in the $400-$800 price point. If you're patient, you'll find one that really resonates, and feels really comfortable for a price you can afford. My 2 cents anyway.
I ended up returning the Journey guitar. And now I understand what people meant when they said if you have second thoughts forget it. The guitar was really fighting me.

Thank you @btbliatout , I ended up doing exactly what you said, went hunting for a mid-range wood instrument. After having a big rethink, I didn't really need the travel guitar functionality. We'll see if a few northern winters with low humidity messes with the guitar, that will be the main reason to move me back to carbon fiber.

The specific wood guitar I found (Kremona) sounded like a dream in person, better than the Yamaha's, Taylors, and Cordoba's. It sits by my desk and gets played every day now.

Cheers all, and thanks for the help!



Side note, I agree with others that Nylon doesn't sound great with Carbon Fiber. I would lean toward buying a steel-string carbon fiber.

But I will give the Journey credit, that it was the best nylon carbon fiber I could find. Just the fretboard lent to a lot of buzzing, and was really meant for fingerpicking, not a great all-rounder.. couldn't do strumming that well. The nylon wood guitar I have now is a great all-rounder, hybrid classical.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Tags
carbon fiber, classical, journey

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=