The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Open Mic

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 06-08-2023, 11:07 AM
Acousticado's Avatar
Acousticado Acousticado is offline
Anticipation Junkie
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oh, Canada!
Posts: 17,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGITM View Post
I'm going on record stating that this merger will not happen.

The PGA is a golfer's association and the players were not included in negotiations. The player's committee can stop the merger with a simple NO vote.

Even if the players were to agree, there is still the potential for either the DOJ and/or the SEC to reject the proposal.

The reality is this: LIV golf cannot make a profit (and they weren't trying to). The PGA cannot compete with the LIV prize purses and remain economically viable. The litigation costs alone for the PGA were going to be enormous. Even if everything moved forward with the merger, there is no viable business model that will make enough money to be profitable. The whole idea of 'team golf' is a non-starter. It took years for the Ryder Cup to generate interest and even with that there isn't prize money involved. I believe that the winning team gets money to donate to charities. The LIV golf concept simply won't make money. Ever.

I believe that this proposal gets the PGA off the hook for all pending litigation, and that will remain true even if the player veto the merger, or the DOJ or SEC reject the deal.

We'll see what happens, but my gut tells me that in the end, this will eliminate LIV golf entirely.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing. I hope youíre correct.
__________________
Tom
'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
My original songs
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-08-2023, 12:08 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,623
Default

I think that, for me, the important thing to remember is that all of this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME... golf has endured for, what? 600 years? 800 years? The game is still the best game man ever invented... and what the PGA Tour does has nothing to do with my love for the game.

Truth is, since a severely debilitating illness of several years ago, I can scarcely swing one of my clubs for long... but I still love the game and keep working to get strong enough to get out and play 9 holes... and I have all these machinations to find a way to get clubs that I can swing and actually hit for a fair distance again... Golf GAS? Ha!

As to all the current BS with this "partnership" - incorrectly reported as a merger - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a level of government involvement that is not being talked about... but that's not something I have anything to do with, and it doesn't affect me, personally.

I still think my Grandma's saying (of which she had many!) is the byline:

"You may as well eat the devil if you're going to drink his broth..."
__________________
"They say Jonah, he was swallowed by a whale...
but I say, there's no truth to that tale.
I know Jonah, he was swallowed by a song..."

"Jonah" (Paul Simon)
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-08-2023, 01:02 PM
Charmed Life Picks's Avatar
Charmed Life Picks Charmed Life Picks is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 8,929
Default

I can't truly express my outrage at this development without entering the larger world of politics, which is (correctly) forbidden on the forum.

There's an old saying in this world: "Money talks and -------- walks." I think we all know what walks

I'm disgusted and outraged -- but not surprised.

Scott
__________________
CHARMED LIFE PICKS
[email protected]
Celebrating Seven Years in Business!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-08-2023, 02:29 PM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 1,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
I find the whole thing sickening actually. I did not like the split, although I can't blame the players for taking the money to leave, I would like to think I would not have done it since they already made very good money.

I am shocked that this happened, with as much animosity that had been thrown back and forth among the leadership and the players, it truly has to be about the money again, no other explanation makes any sense. I also am shocked so few knew about this especially in the current days of leakers and press at the ready to be the first to break a story before facts are even corroborated.

All that said, I still like golf, will still play it, and will still follow the feel good stories like Steve Stricker and his daughters and local players like Jordan Speith. I feel like the PGA, if there is still a recognizable PGA when this is done, needs to step up and do something for Rory, the most vocal advocate they had throughout all of this.
Your part in bold above makes me wonder... did/does the commissioner, alone, or just a couple people have the power to make this decision? A board doesn't have to vote for something so earth-shattering?

EDIT: After posting the above, I see that "TheGITM" member posted something along the lines of what I wrote.
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-08-2023, 02:55 PM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGITM View Post
We'll see what happens, but my gut tells me that in the end, this will eliminate LIV golf entirely.
That's my view, as well. The current LIV season has 7 more events, but none of the venues have been renewed for next year. Some version of team golf will emerge, but it won't be LIV.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-08-2023, 05:08 PM
Special K Special K is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 71
Default

I don't understand how the deal could be done by PGA Commissioner Jay Monahan in secret, and only informing the membership when it was a fait accompli. This is not right. I think both memberships (PGA and LIV) should be given the opportunity to have an up or down vote on the deal. And only if both memberships ratify the agreement, should it proceed. That would mean putting a hold on the deal until all of the details are worked out and put in writing. Then both memberships should be able to vote on the deal. If either membership rejects the deal if shouldn't happen, if both ratify, it moves forward. Isn't this the way it generally works when 2 publicly held companies propose a merger? Don't the shareholders of both companies usually have to vote in favor of the deal for it to move forward? Why should this be any different?
__________________
2018 Bourgeois OMC Custom
2019 Taylor 317e
2022 Martin Custom D-18SS
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-08-2023, 05:44 PM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special K View Post
I don't understand how the deal could be done by PGA Commissioner Jay Monahan in secret, and only informing the membership when it was a fait accompli. This is not right. I think both memberships (PGA and LIV) should be given the opportunity to have an up or down vote on the deal. And only if both memberships ratify the agreement, should it proceed. That would mean putting a hold on the deal until all of the details are worked out and put in writing. Then both memberships should be able to vote on the deal. If either membership rejects the deal if shouldn't happen, if both ratify, it moves forward. Isn't this the way it generally works when 2 publicly held companies propose a merger? Don't the shareholders of both companies usually have to vote in favor of the deal for it to move forward? Why should this be any different?
The players are not shareholders. They're not even employees. At their own insistence, they're independent contractors. They have no say at all. Monahan reports to a 14-member Board of Directors.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-08-2023, 06:05 PM
Lkristians's Avatar
Lkristians Lkristians is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Mostly Palm Beach, FL; sometimes CT, USA
Posts: 5,779
Default

Even though the deal was announced, it hasn't officially happened yet.
__________________
LarryK.
AGF Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-09-2023, 04:39 AM
12barBill 12barBill is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,285
Default

Some interesting background and details here:


https://www.si.com/golf/news/jimmy-d...ut-the-details
__________________
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self --- Ernest Hemingway.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-09-2023, 08:24 AM
Golffishny Golffishny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 773
Default

This will take weeks to work itself out before we really know what it is. What parts are partnered and what is still separate. The media always uses whatever headline will cause the most outrage. Saudi Arabia is already a sponsor for many sporting events and players have been going there for appearance money for many years. I'm waiting until the dust settles to judge it.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-09-2023, 09:19 AM
Tyeetime Tyeetime is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golffishny View Post
This will take weeks to work itself out before we really know what it is. What parts are partnered and what is still separate. The media always uses whatever headline will cause the most outrage. Saudi Arabia is already a sponsor for many sporting events and players have been going there for appearance money for many years. I'm waiting until the dust settles to judge it.
I agree with this. The news was a bomb, but I don't think the sky is falling like some are suggesting.
__________________
Martin D-15M
Martin LX1R
Les Paul Standard
Epiphone Dot
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-10-2023, 07:16 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,380
Default

Gone relatively unnoticed in all of this is that the World Golf Championships are dead. That series ended after the Dell Technologies Match Play event in March. This tour was set up to counter Greg Norman's previous attempt to undermine the PGA with a world tour. It failed.

The result is that dates are now open for alternate events. If LIV is reformatted, and many of us believe it will be, team events could easily go into the slots formerly occupied by WGC events. The Saudi PIF would be the sponsor.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-10-2023, 07:33 AM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
Gone relatively unnoticed in all of this is that the World Golf Championships are dead. That series ended after the Dell Technologies Match Play event in March. This tour was set up to counter Greg Norman's previous attempt to undermine the PGA with a world tour. It failed.

The result is that dates are now open for alternate events. If LIV is reformatted, and many of us believe it will be, team events could easily go into the slots formerly occupied by WGC events. The Saudi PIF would be the sponsor.
That makes a lot of sense to me. It would be a convenient way too of introducing more Match Play into the Tour schedule. Other than the (Ryder & Presidents) Cup events, I don't think there are any Match Play events anymore. Match Play is an exciting alternative to regular stroke play, and I suspect what a lot of us hackers play with friends on a regular basis at home on our own courses.
They could format it similarly to the current NCAA College competitions, in which teams from different schools go against each other in Match Play setups.
I think something like that would be a very positive addition to the Pro schedule.
__________________
Best regards,
Andre
(New user name Gitfiddlemann. Formerly AndreF)

Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
- Paul Azinger

"It ainít what you donít know that gets you into trouble. Itís what you know for sure that just ainít so."
Ė Mark Twain

http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-10-2023, 12:51 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,623
Default

The idea of "not flying off the handle" is a good bit of advice, I think. I still have very strong feelings and opinions regarding the Saudis' involvement, but I will wait and see what shakes out of all of this.

Was good to hear Jimmie Dunne's bit on the Golf Channel. I had more than a few interactions with Mr. Dunne when I was caddying at the Cypress Point Club, and every one was VERY positive. The man truly cares about the game and all involved; he was known as one of those players who took REALLY good care of the caddies. Always a good thing to have a job with any of the groups that he brought to Cypress.

He also has very strong feelings about anyone who was involved with 9/11. When he expounded on those feeling during his Skype session with the Golf Channel, he was dramatically genuine, going to such lengths on public media that I was a bit shocked to hear his words - but there was no doubt in my mind that he absolutely meant all that he said.

Again, I'm undecided about all of this hoopla and am still troubled by this proposed partnership... but I will let the chips fall and see what's what...
__________________
"They say Jonah, he was swallowed by a whale...
but I say, there's no truth to that tale.
I know Jonah, he was swallowed by a song..."

"Jonah" (Paul Simon)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-10-2023, 04:04 PM
fitness1's Avatar
fitness1 fitness1 is offline
Musical minimalist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Central Lower Michigan
Posts: 21,688
Default

Yes - the media's first coverage of this sent a lot of folks into a tizzy - players included from what Immelman and Nantz said at the beginning of the coverage.

As news comes out of what is really intended to happen it softens the blow a good bit.

It will be interesting to see if Tiger and Rory's tour will someone get into this mix too.
__________________
"One small heart, and a great big soul that's driving"

Charis SJ Koa/BC Sitka
Mcknight/Poling GC Koa/Italian
Taylor custom GC Mahogany/Sitka
Loriente Clarita EIR/Engelmann


Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Open Mic

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=