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Old 10-01-2018, 07:33 PM
Wooly Wooly is offline
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Default McCartney doesn't read music

I saw an interesting interview with Paul McCartney on 60 Minutes yesterday. He admits that he nor any of the others Beatles could read music. "I don't see music as dots on a page. It's something in my head that goes on" he stated. He doesn't know theory.

This does and doesn't surprise me in a way. There are probably a lot of greats out there that don't read either but the songs flow out from with in and have the gift to be able to express it. But who would have thought.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:08 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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I believe this is very common among self-taught popular music musicians, particularly artists who compose original songs. Its a bit harder to be a gigging musician dependent on fill-in or studio work if you can't read charts, tab or notation.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:03 AM
Johnny K Johnny K is offline
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I think I responded to a similar post recently. I bet if you ask him if he knows what every note on the fret board is he will say yes and if you ask him if he knows the circle of 5ths he will likely say yes to that too. I dont know how you could right a decent song with that knowledge. Probing further i bet he will cop to knowing the major, major & minor pentatonic blues scales and their CAGED shapes or at the very least knowing to solo over chord shapes. If you know things you can pretty much do a lot in popular music. I bet he even knows the Nashville numbering system.

Interviewers keep asking the wrong questions and it does a great disservice to anyone who looks up to folks like Sir Paul looking to learn a thing, hearing his answer and thinking they dont need to have any knowledge either.

I find it hard to believe that Sir Paul doesn't know jack about music theory. He right, It's not just about reading notes on a page. But the stuff in his head is still basic theory and he learned it and it's ingrained.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:41 AM
Pualee Pualee is offline
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When I feel stagnant, the fastest way to find new inspiration is looking at dots on a page...

It is a form of communication. It is a choice to learn it or not. The ultimate question is - will the investment of time to learn this provide a return on investment that is greater than the time spent?

In some cases - yes, in others - maybe not?

I don't read sheet music when I want to play guitar. However, when I want to learn a song note for note - I rely on piano and trumpet lessons from grade school and read the music.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:55 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Guitar seems to be one of the few instruments where this subject is up for debate. For most, reading standard notation is considered a part of the musician's toolbox, and theory the means to communicate between musicians.

On the other hand, there are those who seem to forget that music is a HEARING art, and not ruled by dots on a page. Either side, those who play strictly by ear and those who play strictly by standard notation would certainly increase their scope by learning at least something of the other way of doing things. Both are good skills to have and the more we know of our craft (as with any other craft or skill set), the better.

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Old 10-02-2018, 07:01 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooly View Post
I saw an interesting interview with Paul McCartney on 60 Minutes yesterday. He admits that he nor any of the others Beatles could read music. "I don't see music as dots on a page. It's something in my head that goes on" he stated. He doesn't know theory.
You mean he doesn't know the jargon that would enable him to describe what he does in academic terms, and he couldn't write it down in notation either.

So what? There are plenty of people who can't read or write but can speak perfectly eloquently, and may know 1000s of words.

He knows music theory (the grammar of the language) probably better than many educated musicians, because he knows the language of popular music intimately. He can "speak pop" like a native, because that's what he is.
He did have a few conventional lessons as a child (piano and trumpet), but mainly he - like Lennon - learned all he knows from learning to play 100s of songs in the five years or so before the Beatles made it big. Learning by ear, of course, not from books. No tab back then, and very few songbooks for pop music (they could have got chords from those, but not read the melodies).

What set them above their contemporaries was that they drew from all kinds of musical genres: jazz, show tunes, blues and country as well as the rock'n'roll everyone else was playing. Plus the odd classical guitar piece. They had no bias towards any particular style. (They saw themselves as rock'n'rollers, because that was what was cool; but they had an insatiable curiosity about all music.)
That's what put all the "vocabulary" in their heads - they had way more stuff to "speak" with than anyone else at that time.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooly View Post
…There are probably a lot of greats out there that don't read either but the songs flow out from with in and have the gift to be able to express it. But who would have thought.
Hi Wooly

More guitarists DO NOT read than those who do.

And many who do have the ability, do not learn nor play from scores or charts. And I'm guessing most readers don't think in terms of notes on a staff. I sure don't.

Music is a language. You probably don't spell the words in your head or see letters on a page when you are telling a story to a friend. Same thing…



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Old 10-02-2018, 09:33 AM
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Blueser100 Blueser100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooly View Post
I saw an interesting interview with Paul McCartney on 60 Minutes yesterday. He admits that he nor any of the others Beatles could read music. "I don't see music as dots on a page. It's something in my head that goes on" he stated. He doesn't know theory.

This does and doesn't surprise me in a way. There are probably a lot of greats out there that don't read either but the songs flow out from with in and have the gift to be able to express it. But who would have thought.
I had heard that before. Good thing George Martin did read music, as he contributed to many signature arrangements of the Beatles vast catalog. Oh, and Prince and Michael Jackson didn't read music either.
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:42 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by Wooly View Post
But who would have thought.
I'm with TBMan here: this itself seems a surprising comment to me.
I'm sure 99% of us here are not in the least surprised to learn - if we didn't know before, which most of us probably did - that Sir Paul can't read music.
The vast majority of popular musicians and pop/rock composers - guitarists especially - don't read music. In fact, it's (mildly) surprising to hear of one that does.

It's equally mistaken to assume he must - therefore - be unusually gifted in order that "the songs flow out from with in and [he has] the gift to be able to express it."
The songs "flow out", because he let so many songs "flow in" (by learning to play them) when he was a child, teenager, and young man. Having a professional musician as a father probably helped too, in making music seem like a normal part of life, not anything special. With so much vocabulary within, it's the easiest thing in the world to express whatever you want. It's as natural as speaking.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:22 AM
FwL FwL is offline
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Reading notation in order to play music is like reading a recipe to cook dinner.

Nobody is surprised when a great cook doesn't use a recipe book.

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Old 10-02-2018, 10:32 AM
nitram nitram is offline
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Many years ago I tried to learn notation from a friend who was a piano teacher. It didn't amount to anything because I didn't have the patience or the ability, I suppose, to master it.
When we sat around on weekends at gatherings to just make some music I had to call out the chord changes to her because she couldn't play by ear- she needed all those dots on a page or she couldn't play along with us.
I'm disappointed that I never learned to read music but I've had years of pleasure playing by ear. And my friend envied those of us who could make music w/out the written parts.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:43 AM
BFD BFD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
You mean he doesn't know the jargon that would enable him to describe what he does in academic terms, and he couldn't write it down in notation either.

So what? There are plenty of people who can't read or write but can speak perfectly eloquently, and may know 1000s of words.

He knows music theory (the grammar of the language) probably better than many educated musicians, because he knows the language of popular music intimately. He can "speak pop" like a native, because that's what he is.
He did have a few conventional lessons as a child (piano and trumpet), but mainly he - like Lennon - learned all he knows from learning to play 100s of songs in the five years or so before the Beatles made it big. Learning by ear, of course, not from books. No tab back then, and very few songbooks for pop music (they could have got chords from those, but not read the melodies).

What set them above their contemporaries was that they drew from all kinds of musical genres: jazz, show tunes, blues and country as well as the rock'n'roll everyone else was playing. Plus the odd classical guitar piece. They had no bias towards any particular style. (They saw themselves as rock'n'rollers, because that was what was cool; but they had an insatiable curiosity about all music.)
That's what put all the "vocabulary" in their heads - they had way more stuff to "speak" with than anyone else at that time.
Agree w/every word Jon. Excellent analysis.

I disagree w/the poster who refutes what Paul said. I'm fairly confident that in the 60 Minutes interview he represented exactly what was on his mind regarding formal music education and where his music comes from. The guy loves making music, talking about it and sharing with others about it.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:08 AM
6L6 6L6 is offline
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He seems to have done fine without reading music...
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:40 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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He seems to have done fine without reading music...
I think we can all agree the Paul McCartney is exceptional. That means he is an exception. I hope we can all realize that most of us are not exceptional musicians. What worked for someone like Paul McCartney is not likely to work for the rest of us mortals. How many hit songs have the rest of us written over the past 6 decades?

It just makes sense to avail yourself of every tool out there. I'm a classically trained musician and I love being able to sight read. I also love having a well developed ear and decent enough grasp of theory that when someone calls a tune I've never heard, but tells me the key (or I figure it out in 3 bars for those who have no clue which key they're playing in) I can play along. Always keep learning!
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:09 PM
Hoyt Hoyt is offline
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Lots of great guitarist did not read music -- Hendrix, Clapton, Tommy Emmanuel, Dylan, Chet Atkins, Eddie Van Halen, Jimmy Page, B.B. King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Robert Johnson, Angus Young, Kurt Cobain, Bob Marley, just to name a few.

I'd like to have formal training; but, at this point, I'm not going to devote time to it. I do admire those who do.
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