#361
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For what it's worth, as a compromise and given the extenuating nature of the circumstances, I did offer to reimburse Ray at $100/hour for the time he spent reviewing wood with me (about 2 hours).
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Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#362
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So you offered $200 in lieu of the non-refundable $1500, as per the policy stated on his website?
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Larry Pattis on Spotify and Pandora LarryPattis.com American Guitar Masters 100 Greatest Acoustic Guitarists Steel-string guitars by Rebecca Urlacher and Simon Fay Classical guitars by Anders Sterner |
#363
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The reality of the situation seems fairly self-evident. It's just un-tidy, and very human. I think it'll work out for everyone though. Last edited by JamesO; 03-13-2013 at 10:41 AM. |
#364
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Exactly how many precedent(s) are we talking about here? And are we aware of the exact circumstances of those precedents? Are they the same as the current situation?
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#365
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Regardless of the website's language, it seems like something that'd be considered unconscionable in the eyes of most people. |
#366
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I don't know. We know that someone has sold their spot, but for whatever reason Juston can't? I'm just seeing the surface here, so you might know of something else.
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#367
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I think you nailed it when you wrote "for whatever reason". Do you know what that reason might be? Unless you know something I don't, I don't think either of us can judge on the fairness of the situation. |
#368
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When a previous chap in Ray's line sold his slot I spoke to a luthier I know about it. I found the whole idea genuinely "interesting". If I were in the line I might get pretty annoyed that some other guy had jumped the queue by buying the slot. Also, his guitar would be cheaper since prices had risen in the interim and the slot and build was being offered at the old price. At the same time, if I could not progress with a build, I'd definitely like to be able to sell my slot etc.
Anyway, the luthier I spoke to also operates a 1.5k "non-refundable deposit". However, when I asked him what he thought about people selling their place in the line he said, "I simply give them their money back". I stated that this was in contrast to his "official" and "public" policy but he countered by stating that enacting this policy - although he is quite entitled to so so - created nothing but bad blood and ill-will and, in the final analysis, just wasn't worth it in terms of bad publicity. I think we can see that he's right after reading this thread folks? Cheers, Steve |
#369
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#370
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As you may know, a precedent can be established and acknowledged as a precedent -- only if we are aware that the details are similar, within reason. |
#371
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I see no reason why Ray wouldn't allow Juston to sell the spot, other than simply because he can, and it is coming off, at least to me, as a punishment. Ray is welcome to present his side, of course. Juston seemed to be able to do this without slinging too much mud.
He also agreed to give Ray $200 for consultation fees. I think that's fair as well. Juston sells his slot to someone else, Ray still gets to build a guitar, and earns his consultation fee in the process. Correct me if I am wrong, but there should be an advantage to Ray to simply refund the $1300, keeping the $200 as compensation for time invested. First, you sever a relationship that is sour, and even subconsiously can't be comfortable (at least it would feel uncomfortable to me to have that hanging over). Second, it ends the negative publicity. Third, if he's as in demand as it seems, then he'll fill the slot he was going to use for Juston's guitar with a guitar that he's charging more for, thereby earning more in the long run. Giving back the money would seem to be more like a win-win here. If I'm missing something, I'm sure someone will bring it to my attention.
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--------------------------------------- 2013 Joel Stehr Dreadnought - Carpathian/Malaysian BW 2014 RainSong H-OM1000N2 2017 Rainsong BI-WS1000N2 2013 Chris Ensor Concert - Port Orford Cedar/Wenge 1980ish Takamine EF363 complete with irreplaceable memories A bunch of electrics (too many!!) |
#372
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I see what you're saying and think you're right. I was responding to the absoluteness with which Larry was speaking.
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#373
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OK cool...
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#374
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I had actually purchased my OM build slot from someone else . . .
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Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#375
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Hmmm...
"precedent" vs "exception"... In science, we also observe the term "singularity". The was once a saying that "The exception proves the rule." It really does come down to, in the case of business, interpersonal relationships and the degree of flexibility between two parties. Again, in science and engineering, we use the term "boundary conditions" - between two boundaries exist the space in which things happen.
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Go for the Tone, George |