buzz. Loose brace

HighAndDry · #1 03-16-2011, 11:47 AM

My old takamine has a buzzing b string. Whats interesting is that the same ptich on the g string (4th fret) also produces the buzz. . It is intermittent. when I press down around the pickguard where there is a brace located it stops. I don't think it is the pickguard. Could it be the brace? If so what is a good technique to glue it?

enalnitram · #2 03-16-2011, 12:11 PM

No trying to sound smart, but if you have to ask, then you might want to have it worked on by someone else. stewmac carries clamps that look like little car jacks, that will press loose braces back up into place.

HighAndDry · #3 03-16-2011, 12:29 PM

If I have to ask maybe there shouldn't even be a forum like this

enalnitram · #4 03-16-2011, 12:41 PM

some things are establish-able thru the world of typing, and some things are rather difficult. if I'm wrong, please rub it in, I don't mind being corrected.

HighAndDry · #5 03-16-2011, 01:04 PM

I know you said you weren't trying to be smart but then proceeded to be. Isn't a give and take of information what the forum is for? I have done a lot of work on guitars. In fact, I just refretted that guitar. I also made a new nut and saddle for it. I asked because I have never glued a brace before, I am not 100% sure that it is a brace, and because I am never afraid to appear stupid if I can learn something. Oh, and if I could afford to have someone else work on it I would.

enalnitram · #6 03-16-2011, 01:18 PM

I wasn't trying to be smart. i could have chosen my words better. I should have said that maybe it would be best to have it looked at. I already assumed you were a smart and able guy because I saw your post where you said you'd fiddled with nuts and refretted instruments. the reason why i was trying to steer you away from a forum solution in this case is because I believe it is going to depend on what's happening. you already know that, but, even the nature of a brace problem (if there is one) is going to make the solution sorta variable. it's going to be hard to tell you precisely how to do that with typing. there's going to be a fair amount of if's and guessing. *OR* if you know a guy, show him. he could tell you what to do to fix it. I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't try. I was trying to say that the fix will depend on stuff and that we, out here, could be wrong. what kind of glue was used originally? etc.

loose braces will often make a creaky noise when you press on them.

stew mac has the clamps.

sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, honestly, just trying to help.

Kitchen Guitars · #7 03-16-2011, 01:22 PM

The Stew Mac Scissor jack is really cool, and pricey. It would be cheaper to take it to a Tech.
Check your Tuner Nuts, change the strings and make sure the ball ends are seated properly. You said you just refretted it. Does fret height check out with a Rocker tool? THEN chase the buzz in the body. Get a telescopic mirror at Home Depot. Shine a flashlight and look for gaps. When (if ) you clamp make sure you use something between the clamp and guitar to keep dinging at bay.
Good luck finding your buzz

BTW High and Dry was my first finger picker tune.

arie · #8 03-16-2011, 01:26 PM

if it's a brace (x or finger) stew mac makes little jacks that can support a glued brace from the inside. or you might be able to fit in a bridge type clamp. or you can use a large bolt and a nut to use as a jack screw but be careful with how much pressure you apply. make sure the gap is as clean as possible before gluing. squirt in some de-ionized water into the gap with a syringe then carefully blow dry with some canned (or other) air. repeat this a couple of times but go easy on the water. you can use a thin metal spatula such as a fine art painter would use on a canvas or again the trusty syringe to get some glue into the gap. my glue preference would be titebond original (yellow) or LMI white.

this would apply if you have a brace that's come loose from the top. if the brace is pocketed into the kerfing and it's loose here, then you'll have to get creative with the clamping.

i know it sounds silly, but could there be a air pocket under the pickguard that's causing the pickguard to vibrate about?

hope it works out

HighAndDry · #9 03-16-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enalnitram

I wasn't trying to be smart. i could have chosen my words better. I should have said that maybe it would be best to have it looked at. I already assumed you were a smart and able guy because I saw your post where you said you'd fiddled with nuts and refretted instruments. the reason why i was trying to steer you away from a forum solution in this case is because I believe it is going to depend on what's happening. you already know that, but, even the nature of a brace problem (if there is one) is going to make the solution sorta variable. it's going to be hard to tell you precisely how to do that with typing. there's going to be a fair amount of if's and guessing. *OR* if you know a guy, show him. he could tell you what to do to fix it. I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't try. I was trying to say that the fix will depend on stuff and that we, out here, could be wrong. what kind of glue was used originally? etc.

loose braces will often make a creaky noise when you press on them.

stew mac has the clamps.

sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, honestly, just trying to help.

Its all good. no problem

gitnoob · #10 03-16-2011, 01:58 PM

I don't have a scissor jack. So I use those inexpensive micro-bar-clamp/spreaders. Just cut down the bar so it fits in your guitar and configure it as a spreader.

Corky Long · #11 03-17-2011, 09:44 AM

I'd take the strings off and get your hands in there. See if you can get some vibration by tapping on the braces. If not, you've got something else causing the buzz - and there's a very comprehensive link in Frets.com (referenced here in another "buzz" thread)

Martin makes a good point on the type of glue being important. Hide glue will adhere to itself, so getting it good and hot and applying it under a brace with a modified putty knife (apparently drilling holes in it will give the glue somewhere to hide as you slip it under the brace. I've never done it, and it sounds like a challenge for people with small hands and double jointed wrists, but that's my understanding of how to do it. Oh and yes, the clamps described are necessary.

Titebond doesn't adhere well to itself, so if it's titebond on the braces, you'd need to carefully sand the brace and underside of the top clean if there's any glue remaining.

Good luck!

charles Tauber · #12 03-17-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corky Long

Oh and yes, the clamps described are necessary.

No, not really. An "old school" method is to use "props" on the interior of the guitar sandwiched between the loose brace and the back. The "prop" can be a piece of scrap wood more-or-less the size of a popsicle stick cut to a length of about 1/2" more than the distance between the brace and the back. The prop is then put in position between the brace and the back and gently wedged in while a clamp is placed outside the guitar with it's jaws over where the ends of the prop are. The clamp(s) apply gentle pressure. If one wishes, one can place a caul inside the guitar on the back to distribute the pressure form the end of the prop, in which case the length of the prop is decreased by the thickness of the caul. (A 1" square piece of fibreboard works well.)

Quote:

Titebond doesn't adhere well to itself, so if it's titebond on the braces, you'd need to carefully sand the brace and underside of the top clean if there's any glue remaining.

Tightebond adheres to itself well enough. There's no need to try to "clean" the bottom of the brace or surface of the top. Doing so will likely just create a poor fit between the bottom of the brace and the top. In 30 years of repairing, I've never had one come loose again. Just sayin'.

gitnoob · #13 03-17-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

An "old school" method is to use "props" on the interior of the guitar sandwiched between the loose brace and the back. The "prop" can be a piece of scrap wood more-or-less the size of a popsicle stick cut to a length of about 1/2" less than the distance between the brace and the back. The prop is then put in position between the brace and the back and gently wedged in while a clamp is placed outside the guitar with it's jaws over where the ends of the prop are.

Great idea -- I've seen this done with "V's" cut in the end of the props, so that they are secured by both back brace and top brace.

charles Tauber · #14 03-17-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitnoob

I don't have a scissor jack. So I use those inexpensive micro-bar-clamp/spreaders. Just cut down the bar so it fits in your guitar and configure it as a spreader.

That's a good, creative solution. I like it. Thanks.

HighAndDry · #15 03-17-2011, 12:14 PM

Thanks for all the great ideas. I found it interesting that the b string frequency sets it off. (remember I can also hit that note on the 4th fret of the g str and make it buzz. It doesn't always do it.
As far as it being the frets goes. No. I have extremely low action. I checked them all with a rocker before attemptin to string it up. No rocking. I am really anal about frets.
And once again Martin, Its all good. I was a little crabby yesterday and shouldn't have over reacted.