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  #16  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:04 AM
Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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My experience with sports cars is that there is nowhere to drive them (safely). As one would want to drive them anyway. And if you were to rent time on a race track you quickly discover that you are driving over your experience level and beating the crap out of a expensive toy. But boy do you look good cruising around in one. And at my age you look like a wounded ape getting out of it. At least that's what my neighbor says.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:25 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
Yup, supercar is a kind of loose and subjective category, and I'm not sure if anyone has ever written an objective definition that is widely accepted.

It is swoopy, impractical looks?

Is it slightly tuned down race technology?

Is it top speed well above the rate of mortal cars?

Is it rarity and high price tag?


Does a car need all of the above to wear a S on it's leotards?


I think Ken Purdy made the case (without using the word) that the Stutz Bearcat was a supercar of it's time. Duesenberg could make a case, but almost all street versions were oversized and had no bodies that referenced current race car practice.


The Mercedes 300SL would certainly qualify. Some other pre-1964 or so cars would also qualify as street-legal versions of contemporary race cars. Ferrari's, Jaguars, Porsches, but none of them were American. I thought of Cunningham of course (a personal favorite), but the street versions while handsome were not particularly racy or extrema in looks. A case could be made for the top of the 1960's Corvette line, though they don't meet the cost factor.

Lance Reventlow/Traco produced at least one street legal Scarab. That so completely meets the rarity rule that it may rule it out.

There's nothing in the Ford GT40 street-legal version that doesn't make it an American supercar before the Vector, unless you write some codicils like must have supercharging, multiple overhead cams, gullwing or scissor doors, etc.

Counter our globalized world, I suppose someone could object to the GT40 based on it having international roots from it's original design onward (based originally on an British design). In my mind that would be like claiming the Marshall guitar amp is American, but....
I am curious . What British design was the Ford GT 40 based on ?
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:26 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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I will also submit the Ford Thunderbolt Fairlane .
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
I am curious . What British design was the Ford GT 40 based on ?
Lola Mk.6 - I watched an episode of Jay Leno’s Garage about it last week.
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:49 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
I am curious . What British design was the Ford GT 40 based on ?
Yup, here's some more

Lola Mk6 GT

I also don't recall where the original road-going version of the Ford GT was assembled. Of course in our modern age of auto making "domestic" and "foreign" makes are hard to figure out, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Ford GT may have been assembled outside US borders. Which would then bolster the Vector's "America's First" claim. But then that would leave the Stutz and Scarab claims to rebut.
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  #21  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:52 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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It seems a bit of a jump to go from having a designer assist in a design to claiming that the design is based on something .
So sad to learn that Ford had no hand in designing the GT40 .
Why was it called the GT40 ?
At least I suspect that no one will claim a non American influence with the Thunderbolt , Talladega , Cyclone Spoiler , Hemi Superbird or Hemi Dodge Daytona . All of theses were available as street cars and able to easily triple the National speed limit and then some .
There were Thunderbolts delivered with the 427 SOHC engine that delivered a modest 616 HP in stock trim . No blowers , turbos or nitrous needed .

Last edited by Otterhound; 01-14-2019 at 11:58 AM.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2019, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
Why was it called the GT40?
GT for Grand Touring, 40 for the mandated roof height of 40".
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:02 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
GT for Grand Touring, 40 for the mandated roof height of 40".
It was actually , no higher than 40" . This was mandated by FoMoCo ( Edsel Ford ) . The remainder was an open book .
Of course , the race version being a pure racing design , does not qualify because it isn't streetable as built . But there was a street version that , like the Vector , was a road car .
Yes , the big block Cobra needs to be considered . These Cobras were not modified street cars . They were designed built from scratch to house the 427 engine .
I would still like to put a 400 Ford engine in a Miyata . Aluminum heads and manifold shed just over 80 pounds from the engine and that long stroke crank puts out prodigious amounts of torque . Step on that throttle and feel the Earth move under your butt .
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
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It was actually , no higher than 40" .
Excuse me for leaving out the words 'no higher'.

And it's a Miata, not a 'Miyata'.

And (I've been meaning to ask this forever, but now I'm in a pissy mood, I will) - why do you always insert an extra space before every punctuation mark. Is it ignorance, or a deliberate desire to drive people like me nuts? Sorry , nuts ?

Obligatory rule #1-avoiding here.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:11 PM
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
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For my $0.02, I say the AC Cobra was the first "true" American Supercar, followed by the original GTO. The reason is an American Supercar needs to be made for American roads. That means muscle is the main attribute. Handling is secondary.
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:57 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
Excuse me for leaving out the words 'no higher'.

And it's a Miata, not a 'Miyata'.

And (I've been meaning to ask this forever, but now I'm in a pissy mood, I will) - why do you always insert an extra space before every punctuation mark. Is it ignorance, or a deliberate desire to drive people like me nuts? Sorry , nuts ?

Obligatory rule #1-avoiding here.
Had no idea that anyone was like you .
I just do that . Think of it as revenge for texting if it gives you some peace .
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2019, 12:23 AM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
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Certainly not the first U.S. “super car”. Several have been cited. In addition to those already mentioned how about the Shelby GT500 current production Mustang and even the Viper ACR, Dodge Challenger SRT Demon.....
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:36 AM
Murphy Slaw Murphy Slaw is offline
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Dodge Challenger SRT Demon.....
Mopar, baby.....

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  #29  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:06 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage97 View Post
Do all DeLoreans come with a flux capacitor?

A few months ago, I drove a McLaren. “Supercar” is highly accurate for that car.
Only problem with the DeLorean, the 1.21GW power supply don't not come standard...

I'm a huge McLaren car fan from the first F1 I saw on TV as a teen and the subsequent domination at LeMans. It was only after that I learned of Bruce McLaren and the team's previous racing successes. The 720S is truly amazing, and I can't wait to see the SpeedTail come to fruition...
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  #30  
Old 01-16-2019, 02:21 PM
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As far as current American Super Car the new Tesla Roadster (Supposed to be Coming 2020) should qualify.
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