The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Open Mic

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:04 PM
Bob Womack's Avatar
Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
Guitar Gourmet
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Between Clever and Stupid
Posts: 21,232
Default

I think the unintended consequences of fad diets are probably the biggest problem. For example, nearly 10% of the U.S. population have diabetes. As the percentage has increased, food producers have begun developing "no sugar added" products. These go into an interesting little ghetto in the grocery stores along with other specialty foods. Before the gluten-free kit came out, the gluten free products occupied what you'd expect for a disease affecting .4% of the population. That is to say, the ratio of no-sugar-added products to gluten-free products was about 10-1. Once the kick hit, the manufacturers turned their sights on making gluten-free products to cater to the popular trend. Now the ratios of available food products have inverted - the supply of no-sugar-added products shrank dramatically and the supply of gluten-free products burgeoned so that now the amount of products in the two categories are just about exactly inverted, about one no-sugar-added product to every ten gluten-free products available.

It isn't just the offerings at the supermarkets, either. Manufacturers discontinued many no-sugar-added products to make manufacturing time and space for gluten-free products.

That means that the 10% of diabetics have lost many products to make way for the .4% wheat intolerant people. Now, I don't want to get into one of those "my disease is worse than your disease" thangs but this percentage reversal is pure popular marketing caused by a fad.

Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:11 PM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SWPA
Posts: 5,768
Default

Again, gluten-free was not originally a “fad diet.” It was something that was prescribed by medical professionals to treat a medical condition. For those of us with family members who were prescribed to follow the GFCF diet it used to be very hard to find products that didn’t contain gluten unless we learned to cook gluten free, which required a significant monetary expense for some ingredients like xantham gum and arrowroot flour. In many ways it was healthier because we weren’t eating so much processed foods.

The spike in GF prepared foods was as much the food/pharmaceutical industry trying to lure people back into the fold by marketing to them aggressively. Unfortunately the masses fell prey to the buzzwords and as such what was once an effective course of treatment has been dismissed as a “fad diet.”
__________________
~ Neil

201? DIY build
201? OLF MJ (DIY build, Carpathian Spruce/East Indian Rosewood)
2013 OLF MJ (DIY build, western red cedar, Honduran mahogany)
2012 McKnight McUkulele
2009 Martin D-16GT
2006 Larrivee OM-03R
1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster (Natural ash)
1989 Kramer Stryker
1973 Takamine F360
197? Epiphone FT-160N Texan
1973 Kay K-401
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:52 PM
Martie Martie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
Unfortunately the masses fell prey to the buzzwords and as such what was once an effective course of treatment has been dismissed as a “fad diet.”
Precisely. Fortunately, 'feelings' will never (ever!) trump facts and gluten simply isn't good for us, at all! And no matter how many people continue to insist (feel) that gluten-free is just another 'fad', the facts tell a very different story indeed (see my previous post).

"But we've been eating certain foods for centuries with no problems!"

Really? That all depends on an individuals level of understanding, and to the extent that is limited, so is their perception of the problem, which is seemingly non-existent to the more 'feeling' driven.

Just to say, I became gluten-free to support my daughter when she was diagnosed as coeliac (which is on the rise). And I have never been in better health. Again, see my previous post for a greater understanding of just how this rubbish is affecting people, whether they are aware of it or not (reality NEVER discriminates!), and people who I haven't seen for a while comment, almost without fail, how better I'm looking.

And it amazes me how people can eat the rubbish that passes for food (usually because they've seen it advertised) and then have a problem with gluten free produce being advertised! And yet, when it's stuff that they 'understand' (they usually don't) it's just good old fashioned "marketing/advertising" that's been used to sell it. But when it's something they (also) don't understand, it's "propaganda".

Another shout out to those with the guts (probably healthy!) to produce and make available these very much needed (so-called) 'alternatives'...
__________________
"Discovery is as much a productive activity as creation." - David Friedman
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-06-2019, 02:26 PM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
Again, gluten-free was not originally a “fad diet.” It was something that was prescribed by medical professionals to treat a medical condition. For those of us with family members who were prescribed to follow the GFCF diet it used to be very hard to find products that didn’t contain gluten unless we learned to cook gluten free, which required a significant monetary expense for some ingredients like xantham gum and arrowroot flour. In many ways it was healthier because we weren’t eating so much processed foods.
I remember my mother going through this 20 years ago when she was first diagnosed. There were virtually no gluten-free options available in stores back then (at least in the UK) and for several years she actually got GF bread on prescription through the NHS. I'd take xanthan gum from here in the US over for her when we visited, because it was so much cheaper here. Nowadays, she has so many more options.
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-06-2019, 05:07 PM
BigMo66's Avatar
BigMo66 BigMo66 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 2,219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Poe View Post
For the past 5000 plus years people have eaten Gluten bread. Now it's bad for you ?
Bread and wine have been served for millennium.

Ed
I'm not the most compassionate person when it comes to issues that might possibly be considered trendy, but my dear Wife of 30 years is definitely sensitive to both gluten and sulfates. Took us 2 decades to finally ask why she felt awful after eating certain foods. Gluten leaves her a slave of the restroom and sulfates make her lips and mouth break out in blisters. Took her a long time to have some extensive testing done, but sure enough there are dietary concerns. Celiac runs in her family with an Aunt and Cousin that can't have a shred of gluten without intense pain. She doesn't need to push it so avoids gluten and sulfates when possible. Not too many complaints from me as wheat stuffs are junk fillers in a lot of processed food.
__________________
USMC RETIRED

1997 Tacoma PM20
2001 Tacoma C5C
2003 Tacoma DR20
2004 Tacoma EMM30 "Forum Guitar"
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:39 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadcutter View Post
What do you guys think of all this 21st Century gluten phobia going down all around us? Is gluten REALLY all the food allergy problem that it’s ginned up to be or is this some kind of bull crap to gouge the consumer into paying more for “gluten free” products? And man those products are WAY more expensive than stuff with gluten in it. Maybe it is legit, I don’t know, but it sure seems to send my red flags a flyin’.
The gluten-free hype is the worst bit of marketing junk I have seen in decades. They did some studies on this with 500 people assigned to each group. One group was told they were getting gluten free bread, but it was loaded with gluten. They said it was wonderful bread and the loved it.

Then they took a second group and gave the real gluten free bread but said it was high gluten. That group gasped and flummoxed and had symptoms like headaches and so forth.

The point being, that its all nonsense. Unless you have celiac disease, which almost no one has.

Its insane what you pay for gluten free. One local baker sells 6 butter tarts for $15 because they are....wait for it..."gluten free".

Sigh.
__________________
Larrivee, Gibson, Ovation, Strat, Tele
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:57 PM
eatswodo's Avatar
eatswodo eatswodo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
The point being, that its all nonsense. Unless you have celiac disease, which almost no one has.
'Almost no-one', right now, is 1 in 133. 2 of my immediate relatives are celiac, and another is, while not being celiac, is decidedly, medically confirmed, intolerant, and effectively has to live as if she is celiac.

That's not nonsense.
__________________
David Eastwood
Guitars, I've got a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:07 PM
Larry Pattis's Avatar
Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
Guitarist - Humanist
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,763
Default “Gluten Free”: Overblown?

Some would say that glyphosate is the real culprit with the so-called (mainstreaming) of “gluten intolerance“.

People with celiac disease of course have a real problem, as I believe has been noted...
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:52 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
'Almost no-one', right now, is 1 in 133. 2 of my immediate relatives are celiac, and another is, while not being celiac, is decidedly, medically confirmed, intolerant, and effectively has to live as if she is celiac.

That's not nonsense.
The data shows the incidence rate in the US as;

2–13/100,000.

So about 5 people out of 100,000 have the gene. That is no epidemic.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/articl...199-X/fulltext
__________________
Larrivee, Gibson, Ovation, Strat, Tele
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:40 PM
Dirk Hofman's Avatar
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NOR * CAL
Posts: 4,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martie View Post
Precisely. Fortunately, 'feelings' will never (ever!) trump facts and gluten simply isn't good for us, at all! And no matter how many people continue to insist (feel) that gluten-free is just another 'fad', the facts tell a very different story indeed (see my previous post).

"But we've been eating certain foods for centuries with no problems!"

Really? That all depends on an individuals level of understanding, and to the extent that is limited, so is their perception of the problem, which is seemingly non-existent to the more 'feeling' driven.

Just to say, I became gluten-free to support my daughter when she was diagnosed as coeliac (which is on the rise). And I have never been in better health. Again, see my previous post for a greater understanding of just how this rubbish is affecting people, whether they are aware of it or not (reality NEVER discriminates!), and people who I haven't seen for a while comment, almost without fail, how better I'm looking.

And it amazes me how people can eat the rubbish that passes for food (usually because they've seen it advertised) and then have a problem with gluten free produce being advertised! And yet, when it's stuff that they 'understand' (they usually don't) it's just good old fashioned "marketing/advertising" that's been used to sell it. But when it's something they (also) don't understand, it's "propaganda".

Another shout out to those with the guts (probably healthy!) to produce and make available these very much needed (so-called) 'alternatives'...
I'd like to see a scientific study which supports this. For celiac patients, of course we all understand the issue. For the rest of us I mean. I understand there is an equally small population of people who suffer from non celiac wheat sensitivity, but this hasn't been linked to gluten. For the rest of us, whole wheat can be a great source of protein carbohydrate (what your brain runs on) and other important phytonutrients, playing a role in staving off cancers, diabetes, and more.

Most people who make changes to their diets feel better, no matter what the change. Watching what you eat generally makes for better health.

Maybe the science is out there, I just haven't seen it yet. Genuinely curious.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-07-2019, 02:57 AM
Martie Martie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman View Post
I'd like to see a scientific study which supports this. For celiac patients, of course we all understand the issue. For the rest of us I mean. I understand there is an equally small population of people who suffer from non celiac wheat sensitivity, but this hasn't been linked to gluten. For the rest of us, whole wheat can be a great source of protein carbohydrate (what your brain runs on) and other important phytonutrients, playing a role in staving off cancers, diabetes, and more.

Most people who make changes to their diets feel better, no matter what the change. Watching what you eat generally makes for better health.

Maybe the science is out there, I just haven't seen it yet. Genuinely curious.
I'll copy and paste my original post below (the one I did before the one you referred to), which may pique your interest to find out more etc. What people choose to believe (and eat) is entirely up to them, but both the (rising) instance of coeliac disease and the actual/potential dangers of eating 'modern' wheat are things we ignore at our peril...

Gluten is a large protein which is difficult for the human digestive tract to handle, and the main problem with it is that it stimulates the production of zonulin. Zonulin is a protein which causes the protective cells lining the gut to open up (so-called "leaky gut syndrome"), which allows toxins that should be flushed through the digestive system, into the bloodstream instead. This can lead to a range of unpleasant symptoms (including cognitive and mood disorders), and ultimately to disease. People with autoimmune and gastrointestinal problems, including coeliac disease and IBS, are more sensitive to zonulin than others.

The other problem with wheat, and other gluten-containing crops, is that they are heavily sprayed with glyphosate, a highly toxic weedkiller. Glyphosate behaves very similarly in the body to zonulin, contributing to increased gut permeability and leaky gut syndrome, so every time we consume gluten, we're giving the gut a double-whammy attack (even organic wheat crops have been found to have some traces of glyphosate, although less than conventional products).

There is no benefit to any human to consuming gluten, and we would all do better without it in our diets. More info here:

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

And here:

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

Big shout out to all those manufacturers with wisdom to produce gluten-free food...
__________________
"Discovery is as much a productive activity as creation." - David Friedman
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:26 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martie View Post
I'll copy and paste my original post below (the one I did before the one you referred to), which may pique your interest to find out more etc. What people choose to believe (and eat) is entirely up to them, but both the (rising) instance of coeliac disease and the actual/potential dangers of eating 'modern' wheat are things we ignore at our peril...

Gluten is a large protein which is difficult for the human digestive tract to handle, and the main problem with it is that it stimulates the production of zonulin. Zonulin is a protein which causes the protective cells lining the gut to open up (so-called "leaky gut syndrome"), which allows toxins that should be flushed through the digestive system, into the bloodstream instead. This can lead to a range of unpleasant symptoms (including cognitive and mood disorders), and ultimately to disease. People with autoimmune and gastrointestinal problems, including coeliac disease and IBS, are more sensitive to zonulin than others.

The other problem with wheat, and other gluten-containing crops, is that they are heavily sprayed with glyphosate, a highly toxic weedkiller. Glyphosate behaves very similarly in the body to zonulin, contributing to increased gut permeability and leaky gut syndrome, so every time we consume gluten, we're giving the gut a double-whammy attack (even organic wheat crops have been found to have some traces of glyphosate, although less than conventional products).

There is no benefit to any human to consuming gluten, and we would all do better without it in our diets. More info here:

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

And here:

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

Big shout out to all those manufacturers with wisdom to produce gluten-free food...
Tried both links and neither could be accessed .
Just thought that I would add that gluten free means no beer .
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:40 AM
Martie Martie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
Tried both links and neither could be accessed .
Just thought that I would add that gluten free means no beer .
Try these...

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

My partner sells something completely unrelated that has enormous health benefits and has collosal backing by science - and yet it is constantly ridiculed by, no less, those with a penchant for a crazy little thing called confirmation bias (coupled with arrogance, which is always rooted in ignorance).

And fear not, you can get GF beer!
__________________
"Discovery is as much a productive activity as creation." - David Friedman
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:06 AM
Basalt Beach's Avatar
Basalt Beach Basalt Beach is offline
aTtiTude is eVeryThing
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: between here and there
Posts: 3,536
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
The data shows the incidence rate in the US as;

2–13/100,000.

So about 5 people out of 100,000 have the gene. That is no epidemic.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/articl...199-X/fulltext
It might be worth while to cite more recent studies than one from 14 years ago.
More recent studies have found a higher incidence rates.

Quote:
CONCLUSIONS:
The prevalence of CD in the United States was 0.71% (1 in 141), similar to that found in several European countries. However, most cases were undiagnosed. CD was rare among minority groups but affected 1% of non-Hispanic whites. Most persons who were following a GFD did not have a diagnosis of CD.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850429

or

Quote:
In a systematic review and meta-analysis, we found celiac disease to be reported worldwide. The prevalence of celiac disease based on serologic test results is 1.4% and based on biopsy results is 0.7%. The prevalence of celiac disease varies with sex, age, and location. There is a need for population-based prevalence studies in many countries.
https://celiac.org/main/wp-content/u...e_GGH_2018.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
the supply of no-sugar-added products shrank dramatically and the supply of gluten-free products burgeoned so that now the amount of products in the two categories are just about exactly inverted, about one no-sugar-added product to every ten gluten-free products available.

It isn't just the offerings at the supermarkets, either. Manufacturers discontinued many no-sugar-added products to make manufacturing time and space for gluten-free products.
We have been shopping and purchasing sugar free products for nearly twenty years, and have only observed an increase in the number of products being offered. Perhaps the stores in your region of the country have discontinued stocking sugar free products. Here, the number and variety of items have only increased and that has made shopping for them much easier.
__________________
"the tragedy in life is not what we suffer, it is what we miss"
| Bourgeois | Northwood | PRS Electric| Rainsong | Voyage Air |
AGF Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:45 AM
Dirk Hofman's Avatar
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NOR * CAL
Posts: 4,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martie View Post
I'll copy and paste my original post below (the one I did before the one you referred to), which may pique your interest to find out more etc. What people choose to believe (and eat) is entirely up to them, but both the (rising) instance of coeliac disease and the actual/potential dangers of eating 'modern' wheat are things we ignore at our peril...

Gluten is a large protein which is difficult for the human digestive tract to handle, and the main problem with it is that it stimulates the production of zonulin. Zonulin is a protein which causes the protective cells lining the gut to open up (so-called "leaky gut syndrome"), which allows toxins that should be flushed through the digestive system, into the bloodstream instead. This can lead to a range of unpleasant symptoms (including cognitive and mood disorders), and ultimately to disease. People with autoimmune and gastrointestinal problems, including coeliac disease and IBS, are more sensitive to zonulin than others.

The other problem with wheat, and other gluten-containing crops, is that they are heavily sprayed with glyphosate, a highly toxic weedkiller. Glyphosate behaves very similarly in the body to zonulin, contributing to increased gut permeability and leaky gut syndrome, so every time we consume gluten, we're giving the gut a double-whammy attack (even organic wheat crops have been found to have some traces of glyphosate, although less than conventional products).

There is no benefit to any human to consuming gluten, and we would all do better without it in our diets. More info here:

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

And here:

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

Big shout out to all those manufacturers with wisdom to produce gluten-free food...
Thank you but the links didn’t work. Are those studies showing negative effects of gluten or hypotheses about why it’s bad?
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > Other Discussions > Open Mic

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=