Bowed neck on a Composite Acoustic?

lpaul626 · #1 08-20-2014, 11:11 AM

I recently bought a used '06 Composite Acoustic OX Raw from it's original owner as gigging guitar. The guitar was well cared for and it showed. When I got the guitar last week, I noticed the action was too high for my liking after restringing it with Elixir Lights (12-53). So I took it to my luthier for a setup. Knowing there's no truss rod, I expected them to have to shave the saddle a bit.

After he looked at it, he pointed out that there wasn't much of the saddle to shave down. Furthermore, he pointed out that the neck was actually bowed (with a slight twist on the high E side) which was actually pretty obvious once he showed it to me. Because there's no truss rod, there's nothing he could do.

Obviously disappointing. I've been in touch with the seller and he's dealing with the manufacturer (now owned by Peavey) for some sort of warranty claim.

Has anyone seen/heard of/experienced this with these types of guitars? Based on my research, I thought these guitars were impervious to warping, etc??

tdq · #2 08-20-2014, 02:33 PM

I have a pre-peavey GX, which I've had going on 5 years now. I use 12s and sometimes even a nut extender for lap slide, which adds more tension. I haven't had any neck issues.

guitararmy · #3 08-20-2014, 02:36 PM

It would seem that unless it was subjected to extreme heat, it probably would have been like that from the factory....

tdq · #4 08-20-2014, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitararmy

It would seem that unless it was subjected to extreme heat, it probably would have been like that from the factory....

It's possible - allegedly SOME of the earlier CA's had neck issues as there was, again allegedly, some QA problems. If you do a search there was quite a few heated threads about them at one time. Fortunately for me it was sorted out by the time mine was built, September 2010. (I guess that makes it four years...)

guitararmy · #5 08-20-2014, 04:00 PM

I have two pre-Peavey CA Legacy dreads, and I'm pretty sure the necks are straight and not twisted. (Haven't checked them lately....) The necks seem so stiff that you wouldn't think they would change over time.

Doubleneck · #6 08-20-2014, 04:08 PM

Like said at periods they had QC issues on necks. Peavey will not warranty the old CA guitars.

lpaul626 · #7 08-20-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Like said at periods they had QC issues on necks. Peavey will not warranty the old CA guitars.

Can this be properly repaired?

kramster · #8 08-20-2014, 04:35 PM

First couple OX raws that came out had some issues...when I ordered one from MacNichol back in the day and he did not send the first one he got as it was unacceptable to him and waited for next one which is ok still

Doubleneck · #9 08-22-2014, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpaul626

Can this be properly repaired?

Simple answer is no.

SpruceTop · #10 08-22-2014, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpaul626

I recently bought a used '06 Composite Acoustic OX Raw from it's original owner as gigging guitar. The guitar was well cared for and it showed. When I got the guitar last week, I noticed the action was too high for my liking after restringing it with Elixir Lights (12-53). So I took it to my luthier for a setup. Knowing there's no truss rod, I expected them to have to shave the saddle a bit.

After he looked at it, he pointed out that there wasn't much of the saddle to shave down. Furthermore, he pointed out that the neck was actually bowed (with a slight twist on the high E side) which was actually pretty obvious once he showed it to me. Because there's no truss rod, there's nothing he could do.

Obviously disappointing. I've been in touch with the seller and he's dealing with the manufacturer (now owned by Peavey) for some sort of warranty claim.

Has anyone seen/heard of/experienced this with these types of guitars? Based on my research, I thought these guitars were impervious to warping, etc??

Even the new Peavey Composite Acoustics can have neck-related issues, although they may not affect a player's enjoyment of the instrument. Right now, at my favorite dealer, is a used April 2014, serial-numbered CA Legacy RAW-ELE Dreadnought for a nice price. It sounds gorgeous but upon initially playing it a month ago, I noticed the action was quite high (.110" inch at the 12th fret -- I measured it). The dealer shaved the saddle and it played better and still sounded great! He said what he noticed when doing the saddle work was that the neck had a swale (a downward dip and rise) between the 12th-fret and the body. I noticed that this made the fretboard appear to rise as it went across the body toward the soundhole and he confirmed my observation. Frankly, this swale wouldn't affect the playability of the guitar unless the player played up the fretboard toward the body, and then it wouldn't be too bad. I'm still thinking of acquiring this guitar!

From my ownership experience, both Composite Acoustic and RainSong guitars have guitar-to-guitar build irregularities that don't affect tone and usually not playability but can be a niggling irritant to those amongst us who seek perfection or something close to it. I'm a machinist and I notice EVERYTHING that doesn't contribute to what I believe the goals are in a design. I don't have experience with BlackBird or Emerald guitars so I can't comment on them.

Carbon guitar construction is still--most likely within acceptable parameters--an evolving manufacturing process as the materials tend to do what they want to do given the variables of heat, amount of impregnation of carbon material, and the attention and skill of those involved in the construction process. How do I arrive at this assessment? I've owned a dozen RainSongs and two Composite Acoustics, all high-end guitars, as well as auditioning others of both brands.

Regards,

SpruceTop (aka RainDance when carbonated)

SpruceTop · #11 08-22-2014, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdq

It's possible - allegedly SOME of the earlier CA's had neck issues as there was, again allegedly, some QA problems. If you do a search there was quite a few heated threads about them at one time. Fortunately for me it was sorted out by the time mine was built, September 2010. (I guess that makes it four years...)

Some, not all, had neck issues: neck angle and neck relief.

Regards,

SpruceTop (RainDance when carbonated)

tommyld · #12 08-22-2014, 08:50 PM

Bummer to hear this. No fix I kow of, and I'm pretty sure Peavey isn't doing warranty work on old ones.

I owned a handful of Composite Acoustics between 2003 and 2008 (their materials and approach changed a few times in that span)...and hey, I liked them enough to buy quite a few, but was chasing perfection a bit. A couple developed or came with neck humps, incorrect neck angles, or too-high action that couldn't be corrected. I also felt that the necks on some weren't strong enough (with a tiny bit of pressure on the back of the neck, they'd go out of tune). I understand the plan at the time was to allow the tension of the strings to pull the necks forward to the correct relief...

Don't get me wrong, there are some great pre-Peavey CAs out there.

When Peavey took over, I read some posts by employees that put me at ease--they had the same concerns about the necks and said they were putting a lot of work into redesigning and strengthening them. I think Composite Acoustics was onto a good thing, but it sure sounds like Peavey perfected them. (Though I haven't played one.)

lpaul626 · #13 08-23-2014, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommyld

Bummer to hear this. No fix I kow of, and I'm pretty sure Peavey isn't doing warranty work on old ones.

This is correct. The original owner was told by Peavey CS that they would not honor the warranty but would put him in touch with an authorized Peavey luthier.

This was enough for me. I'm in the process of returning the guitar to the seller for a refund. I simply didn't want to go down this road having spent$$$ on a guitar that is unrepairable and to me unplayable. Plus, the manufacturer's successor isn't even standing behind these guitars (pre acquisition).

He apparently didn't notice as he strung/played it with electric 10s. As soon as I installed lights, the bow was that much more prominent.

Disappointing... Especially since I own a Yamaha that cost me 1/5 the price that sets up much better.

I guess it's a good lesson in "try before you buy."

Thanks all for the input..

Raggamuffin · #14 08-23-2014, 08:51 AM

Sorry about your experience. I have a CA guitar that I love.

carterjackson2 · #15 08-28-2014, 07:27 AM

I must just be lucky. I currently own 4 pre-Peavey CA's. I previously owned several others (all off Ebay or forums) and over the past 10 years or so have probably played at least a dozen more. I keep looking for the neck or intonation issues I read about all the time but have yet to find any. As Kramster said, there were some early ones CA admitted had neck issues and most were quickly returned.