Can't Beat The Buzz!

[joeyswit]

I play a Breedlove (Atlas) AD25. Love the guitar. However, the amount of buzz in the lower strings has grown more and more unbearable for me. Even if I am careful to not strum/pluck too hard, the low E and A strings (especially fretted at 5 or higher), produce a sound that is far from clear. I have tried heavier strings, lighter strings, higher action, lower action... Could this indicate a twisting of the neck? Are there other solutions? I would appreciate any advice!

[TokyoNeko]

Have you taken it to a local luthier or a reputable guitar tech for an inspection? It could take as simple as a proper setup to alleviate the buzz.

[joeyswit]

Originally Posted by TokyoNeko

Have you taken it to a local luthier or a reputable guitar tech for an inspection? It could take as simple as a proper setup to alleviate the buzz.

I have taken it to two different reputable techs. The first one lowered the action, and the second one raised it. A significant amount of buzzing remains!

Not sure where to turn next...

[Mouthy1]

Mine did that too. Luthier said the frets weren't level. Didn't pay $200 to find out!

[Supergoose]

I had some buzz on my Walden and a 2 minute truss rod adjustment did the trick just with a quarter turn with an Allen Key. Not sure if that would work for you? Good luck.

[Bax Burgess]

Looking down the length of the neck, does the fretboard curve up as it approaches the soundhole? Only cure for that, without raising the action, would be to have those frets ground down, or even shaving the fingerboard down, the frets replaced.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by joeyswit

I have taken it to two different reputable techs. The first one lowered the action, and the second one raised it. A significant amount of buzzing remains!

Not sure where to turn next...

Probably better skilled repair persons.

Based on what you've written it appears that it buzzes at numerous frets at and above the 5th on the two lower strings. That suggests that it may not be fret-height related.

One possibility is that the "non-vibrating" portion of the string is buzzing against the frets, the portion between the nut and your finger fretting the string. You can easily check that by playing it where it buzzes and then lightly touching the "non-vibrating portion of the string with your other hand. If that stops the buzzing, the neck curvature is wrong (i.e. truss rod adjustment) or the nut is a little low.

Another possibility is that it is something on the guitar that is buzzing. A common thing is the washers under the nuts of the tuning machines. You can use a wrench to try tightening the nuts on the top of the machines. (Don't go crazy, just snug.)

If there are electronics in the guitar, it could be a lose wire buzzing against the inside of the guitar. Check that, if appropriate.

Another possibility is a lose brace on top or back. You can try gently pressing on various places on the top while it is buzzing to see if that stops the buzzing.

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by Mouthy1

Mine did that too. Luthier said the frets weren't level. Didn't pay $200 to find out!

$200 for a fret dress and set up? Who's charging that?!!

Out of interest, what is the going rate in the US for a set up including fret dress?

[Ben-Had]

I'd charge $110 (set $35, leveling $75).

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by joeyswit

I play a Breedlove (Atlas) AD25. Love the guitar. However, the amount of buzz in the lower strings has grown more and more unbearable for me. Even if I am careful to not strum/pluck too hard, the low E and A strings (especially fretted at 5 or higher), produce a sound that is far from clear. I have tried heavier strings, lighter strings, higher action, lower action... Could this indicate a twisting of the neck? Are there other solutions? I would appreciate any advice!

Sounds like you MIGHT (it is a might) have too much of a bow in the neck. Fret it at fret one and fret 14 on the same string, and sight from beside the fingerboard to see how far the strings are from the frets near the 5th to 8th. There should be no more than a G-string or D-string diameter of distance between the string and the fret. If there is much more, your buzz is possibly due to this. Very common.

Straightening the truss rod will bring the strings closer to the fingerboard. Hence, your higher saddle (or shimmed saddle) will likely be the best to start with.

As some other posters have stated, some frets out of level could be causing the issue, too. Just like wooden homes that move and settle after being built for up to 10 years or so, guitar frets tend to settle and move in the few years after installation, and this can be cause to schedule fretwork. No flaw on the builder in this case, since it is natural settling of metal into wooden slots.

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by HCG Canada

Sounds like you MIGHT (it is a might) have too much of a bow in the neck. Fret it at fret one and fret 14 on the same string, and sight from beside the fingerboard to see how far the strings are from the frets near the 5th to 8th. There should be no more than a G-string or D-string diameter of distance between the string and the fret. If there is much more, your buzz is possibly due to this. Very common.

This goes against all that I know and have ever experienced working on guitars for many years. Having more relief (whether you need it or not) and a higher action will reduce fret buzz on a given guitar, not cause it.

[joeyswit]

I appreciate the very helpful replies! I will try these solutions and get back with the results.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by steveyam

This goes against all that I know and have ever experienced working on guitars for many years. Having more relief (whether you need it or not) and a higher action will reduce fret buzz on a given guitar, not cause it.

Steve, I think you're in the UK. If money weren't a barrier, I'd suggest you fly across the pond to see me. I have 2 guitars in my shop right now with the self-same issue as examples. Maybe some day I'l draw something and show the geometry, scan it in, then post a link. It is easier to visualize with a diagram, of course.

Cheers!

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by HCG Canada

Steve, I think you're in the UK. If money weren't a barrier, I'd suggest you fly across the pond to see me. I have 2 guitars in my shop right now with the self-same issue as examples. Maybe some day I'l draw something and show the geometry, scan it in, then post a link. It is easier to visualize with a diagram, of course.

Cheers!

Ned,

Trust me, I don't need to fly to Canada - or anywhere else on the planet - to see that a guitar with more relief and/or a higher action will be less prone than the same guitar with the opposite setup, to fret buzz. It's something I've witnessed and addressed since 1978 when I first worked on, and began to analyse, guitar setups, at that time, on an Antoria 335 copy. I have yet - after hundreds of guitars - to experience one where you set it up with more relief, a higher action, and as a result, it buzzes. Is this an April fool's joke? are you serious? But then again this isn't the first time we've disagreed on things. Like you reckon one should set nut height before saddle height, when I've given very clear, irrefutable reasons that when going for a low action, you are very likely to find that subsequent lowering of the saddle can lead to buzzing at the first fret. Any luthier worth his salt will tell you that. Yes, you can get away with doing nut first, but it's pure luck! Ned, you just don't get it! I can't help that, and here we have a similar situation; you're flying in the face of logic, common knowledge and the laws of physics.

If money is not a problem, I suggest you come and see me, and I'll gladly take you through the rudiments of guitar setups.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by steveyam

Ned,

Trust me, I don't need to fly to Canada - or anywhere else on the planet - to see that a guitar with more relief and/or a higher action will be less prone than the same guitar with the opposite setup, to fret buzz. It's something I've witnessed and addressed since 1978 when I first worked on, and began to analyse, guitar setups, at that time, on an Antoria 335 copy. I have yet - after hundreds of guitars - to experience one where you set it up with more relief, a higher action, and as a result, it buzzes. Is this an April fool's joke? are you serious? But then again this isn't the first time we've disagreed on things. Like you reckon one should set nut height before saddle height, when I've given very clear, irrefutable reasons that when going for a low action, you are very likely to find that subsequent lowering of the saddle can lead to buzzing at the first fret. Any luthier worth his salt will tell you that. Yes, you can get away with doing nut first, but it's pure luck! Ned, you just don't get it! I can't help that, and here we have a similar situation; you're flying in the face of logic, common knowledge and the laws of physics.

If money is not a problem, I suggest you come and see me, and I'll gladly take you through the rudiments of guitar setups.

Our points aren't mutually exclusive, Steve.

With a guitar with LOW action and too great a truss rod based bow, notes can fret out near the middle of the neck and on upwards. With too much bow and low action, the action is in fact lower near the 14th frets and beyond, whereas the action on the middle of the neck is in fact higher. In such a situation, straightening the neck and raising the saddle will indeed improve the unwanted fretting out near 5th fret and beyond. In the situation of too much bow, the deepest part of the bow is in the middle of the neck. By fretting notes in the deepest part of this U-shape, the geometry is such that the strings are too close to higher frets causing string to fret buzzing.

If a guitar with a truss that is too straight and saddle action too low arrives in my shop, that is a different story altogether, but this beast will buzz from open strings onward and will likely clear up farther onto the fretboard extension.