Learning songs you don't want to learn

[phydaux]

I consider myself primarily an acoustic guitar player. I have a huge appreciation for fingerstyle guitar, but don't feel like I have the right hand dexterity to pull it off. And so, I flat pick.

As a flat picking acoustic guitar player it doesn't take long before you fall in the Bluegrass Bucket. As I looked over several Bluegrass method books & Bluegrass songbooks, like The Parking Lot Picker's Songbook, Guitar Edition (as opposed to the mandolin or banjo edition), I quickly realized "I don't know ANY of these songs..." Trying to learn songs that I had never listened to before didn't strike me as an enjoyable way to spend my time, so thus ended my foray into Bluegrass music.

I was watching some guitar videos on YouTube, and I clicked on some Rick Beato videos. He was talking about how rock guitar players and jazz guitar players use very different chords. He then went on, very quickly & superficially, to "teach" some jazz chords.

This sparked an interest in both learning about jazz, and learning how to play jazz on my guitar. For learning about, I got my hands on a copy of Jazz For Dummies. And for learning how to play I got a copy of Jody Fisher's Jazz Guitar, Complete Edition from Alfred (Alfred publishes what are now my favorite guitar method books, currently I own several for guitar & mandolin). And to hasten my jazz music appreciation I got my hands on the box set The Smithsonian Collection of Classic Jazz - Ninety-nine songs on five CDs. And I had heard less than ten of them before in my life.

Anyway, I post all that just to say I'm getting a lot less ashamed of just strumming open chords and playing songs I loved from my teens & 20's.

[mr. beaumont]

Well, I think using a pick is good for a lot more than strumming and playing bluegrass (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Jazz is certainly one of them. And the best thing about jazz is, you'll never know it all. There's always something new...you've found the key to never having an excuse to be bored, ever again

[tbeltrans]

I don't consider myself a "jazz" guitarist, but I do use a lot of "jazz" chords and harmony to play solo guitar. I use my fingers instead of a pick. The cool thing is to do that, you don't have to have the kind of finger dexterity you would need to play, say, Leo Kottke. I just play a bass line with my thumb and use my fingers to pick individual strings that might be a bit more difficult with a pick.

However, Johnny Smith claimed he could do with a pick what other folks do with their fingers. Check out Sean McGowan or Walter Roderiguez Jr. for fingerstyle jazz.

What I don't like about playing fingerstyle (I like to listen to it) is that I felt that I needed to memorize an arrangement whether I wrote it or somebody else did, and pretty much play it that way. For me, that is too much work.

Using jazz harmony, I can play a tune however I want to and if I forget part of it, I can fudge my way back to something I remember. Instead of having a repertoire limited by my memory of whole pieces, I learned to be able to interpret from a fakebook, which gives you the melody line and chord symbols above it, leaving you to make what you want from that sparse information.

So I play and practice at the same time because I am determining how I want to harmonize the melody while doing it, and by constantly doing that, I can get better at doing that.

If you want some idea of this stuff in a fairly simple to understand manner, check out Sandra Sherman's youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/GuitarversumSandraSherman

That is a very good free introduction to what is called "chord melody" (i.e. playing chords under the melody as a solo instrumental piece. There is endless variety, so what she teaches in her youtube videos is a very good introduction to a much larger world to explore later on.

By the way, the guitar she is playing is a Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion II, exactly like mine except hers is sunburst and mine is red.

Tony

[phydaux]

Clearly I didn't explain myself well.

The point I was making was I poked my toe into learning bluegrass style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy bluegrass music.

So then I set myself to learn jazz style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy jazz music.

I was making more of a comment on human nature rather than making a request for technical assistance.

[phydaux]

I will check out that youtube channel, though.

I'm currently using some flatpicking resources to learn Carter Style flatpick chord melody, with an eye toward expanding that to other genera like country, blues, and old time rock & roll.

[columbia]

I think I had heard maybe 10 bluegrass songs ever before I started getting into bluegrass in my 30s. I just started listening to as much of the old stuff (Monroe, Stanley Bros., Jimmy Martin, Flatt & Scruggs, Osbornes) as I could and eventually developed an appreciation for it. Of course, it helped that I had been listening to older country music beforehand.

I will say that sometimes books of bluegrass songs include songs for their public-domain-edness even though you probably wouldn't hear one at a bluegrass jam.

[Mr. Jelly]

I totally get what you are talking about, I think. I was into flatpicking years ago in a fashion. I looked at all those tunes that I didn't know the medly of and found it hard to work at correctly. What I ended up doing in my usual fashon was stealing the style and technics and flatpicking boomer pop tunes. Like Beatles and Santana etc. Fast forward to today after years of dedicating my self to fingerpicking I have come back to flatpicking with a better understanding. know this. There are trcks to playing allot of fiddle tunes in the key that it is done in and what chords they are playing out of and the capo is a necessary tool. It's a style and sound thing that is totally guitar through and through. It does take immersion, work and time to do it justice. So watching the "I know everything" guitar teaches is just a slight introduction. They are almost offensive really. Go to Flatpicking magazine for learning materials. It's a deep dive.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Clearly I didn't explain myself well.

The point I was making was I poked my toe into learning bluegrass style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy bluegrass music.

So then I set myself to learn jazz style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy jazz music.

I was making more of a comment on human nature rather than making a request for technical assistance.

Sorry, I try to be helpful when I can. But obviously (now) I completely missed the mark. My apologies.

Tony

[Dave Hicks]

Sometimes you wind up having to play things you would never have been interested in if left to yourself. Before I retired we had a faculty-staff band that played for the students. The set list was chosen by the whole group of about 8 people.

I otherwise would probably never have played anything by Bon Jovi, the Clash or Styx. But it was a good experience, which I enjoyed more than I thought I would.

D.H.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Clearly I didn't explain myself well.

The point I was making was I poked my toe into learning bluegrass style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy bluegrass music.

So then I set myself to learn jazz style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy jazz music.

I was making more of a comment on human nature rather than making a request for technical assistance.

Is there any kind of music you like? There are a lot of folk, blues, CW, pop, and other genres that work well with strummed/flat picked guitar.

My #1 piece of advice that I'll repeat once again - play music with other people! Based on comments here on AGF, most people play alone in their homes. Some of these wonder why they're not having any fun and not getting any better....

[phydaux]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Is there any kind of music you like? There are a lot of folk, blues, CW, pop, and other genres that work well with strummed/flat picked guitar.

My #1 piece of advice that I'll repeat once again - play music with other people! Based on comments here on AGF, most people play alone in their homes. Some of these wonder why they're not having any fun and not getting any better....

I do play with others. I have a monthly acoustic barn jam that I attend. I have one this Saturday, in fact.

We play a lot of country like Hank Williams & Johnny Cash, classic rock & roll like CCR, Doobie Brothers, Grateful Dead, & Jimmy Buffet, and lots & lots of blues.

And it's a feature that even if you ONLY play blues then you will naturally be dipping your toe into country, classic rock & roll, and jazz. Not just your toe, either. Up to the knees is each, to be honest. Which is AWESOME.

Leading to an oft repeated phrase of mine from these jams when it comes to what tune to call next - "Blues is ALWAYS the right answer."

Someone earlier recommended resources from Flatpicking Guitar Magazine. I'm working my way through their Flatpicking Essentials series, and I just ordered Flatpicking The Blues.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by phydaux

Clearly I didn't explain myself well.

The point I was making was I poked my toe into learning bluegrass style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy bluegrass music.

So then I set myself to learn jazz style playing technique only to discover that I didn't really enjoy jazz music.

I was making more of a comment on human nature rather than making a request for technical assistance.

There's a lot of music I don't normally choose to listen to, but which I actually enjoy playing.

Two main reasons:

1. I like the sound and feel of it when I'm playing it. (I like making it my own, rather than listening to someone else's version.)

2. The audience I'm playing to likes it.

At the same time - from the opposite angle - there is music I like listening to but would never attempt to play - usually because I simply don't have the skills (or more often the instruments required!.

In the middle is music I always like hearing, and always enjoy playing. That tends to be blues, or something very like blues: e.g., "Americana". Blues is where I began (and Americana too, although it wasn't called that then), and where I tend to gravitate back to - and even after 55 years doing it, it still isn't boring.
Bluegrass counts there, of course, but I can well understand it's unsatisfiyng as solo guitar music. You need to have the band! It's not about the technical virtuosity (never that!), it's about the whole vibe.
Jazz too, although I like it in principle (the improvisation, the swing and syncopation...), has limited appeal for me, both to listen to and to play.

My tastes just happen to be broad, but also spread quite thin. I like dipping my toe in lots of different genres, but I never get very deep. (Having said that, I have occasionally totally immersed myself in one genre, or even one artist, but never for very long.)

[Mr. Jelly]

It sounds like you, and anyone that experiences this type thing, are on the road to playing their own music. Which isn't "that" music. Music is a creative endeavor.

[CASD57]

I'm going to glide past the bluegrass stuff.. and answer the question
As much as I want to play at Senior Centers..low key..maybe no amp..type stuff...
I see it happens more often around the holidays and I just can't find versions of Christmas Music I want to play...I mean Alan Jackson does some but I would think you need 15-20 songs...maybe more, Of course you could mix in other ballads I guess and maybe only 5-6 Christmas songs?
So basically I don't want to learn Christmas music..it doesn't inspire me...I love Christmas..But....

[rllink]

I think that if I hadn't gotten in with a bunch of bluegrass people I wouldn't be into it as much as I am now. I mean, it is always more than just the music for me. But like all genres of music, there are some bluegrass songs I like and some I don't. You don't have to embrace and immerse yourself in the entire works of a particular genre just to like and play a few songs. There are lots of bluegrass songs I don't like and don't play. That doesn't mean I have to abandon bluegrass.