Martin Neck Set Angle

[Rbutton]

I too have seen far too many Martins with incorrect set ups. The neck angle can be off or the top may belly up too much, but usually it is the neck angle. As others have said neck resets on the Martin dove tail joint can be a challenge and an exercise in frustration. I spent 8 weeks at the Galloup school and in the process we built an acoustic from the ground up. The neck was a bolt on. Even so there is a lot of careful slip sanding involved to get the proper neck angle in both directions. Collings uses the same method and they will be the first to tell you a bolt on neck does not sacrifice any tone, vibrations, or sustain.

If you are paying thousands of dollars for a guitar it should be set up correctly for the average player. First, the neck must have proper relief when measured at full string tension. Capo the first fret and fret the string where it meets the body. There should be .010 to .008 clearance from the bottom of the sting to the fret in the center of the segment you are fretting.
The string height at the nut is determined by fretting ath 3 and measuring the distance from the bottom of the string tot the top of the first fret.the distance should be .001 - .003. It could be more depending on your attack. .003 is sufficient for just about most players. I personally have .001 without buzz.

Once you have determined you have proper neck relief and have checked the string height at the nut you can address the saddle height. It is hard to have too high of saddle, mostly people have cut down the saddllemto bring the string height down. But you must check the relief and nut height first.

You need a good clear break over the saddle. To low and your guitar will not preform properly. Checking the string height at the 12th fret th standard height is 3/23 r the low E and 2/32 from the bottom of the string to the top of the 12th fret. If you have a tall enough saddle in relationship or the bridge you cann carefully take material off the bottom of the saddle. I use a flat block of wood with 120 grit sandpaper 2 way taped to th e block. This makes it easy to get a smooth straight bottom. Remember you have to take off double the amount you want to bring the string down at the 12th fret.

1 check neck relief
2 Check nut height
3 adjust saddle if you have room.

I like to have about an 1/8 of saddle Obote the bridge to give me a goo sharp trying angle coming off the saddle. If after going through these steps you have a saddle too low, you need a neck reset.

[JerryM]

I agree Button same methods I use, funny thing I had a Eastman E10 that took a beautiful set up , had 5/64 clearance on the top string only about .004 relief and still had enough saddle to last for years, great string break and a check with the straight edge laid a 1/16" over the top of the bridge. Great build in my opinion for a 1k guitar and it played like butter with no buzz. If my Martins could have been like that I would have been elated.
I kept hearing from Luthiers, " Bluegrass Guys Like High Action" , ya if they are just banging out cowboy chords in the first position but bottom line you can't play up to the 17th and have action high enough to stick a pencil under unless you have hands like Godzilla.. playing fiddle tune leads and lines requires a fairly low action or you won't last for many tunes without hurting.
I agree with Mr. Collings and Bob Taylor, Bourgeois, and many others bolt on is the way to go to solve these kinds of problems. A 30 minute job to remove shim and replace a neck.
I am really gun shy now when buying and check the set first!! Glad I am not the only one who has had this issue.

[MChild62]

Yes. I was in the verge of getting a Martin D-18 as anniversary present; but this problem/risk may drive me to get a dread from a quality European maker. Or maybe the new Taylor dread since they have service here in Europe,
Last year I had a short time in the USA and bought a D-15 Special (spruce top). Loved the sound and plays great! Action is on the high end which Martins are known for. The saddle was already a bit low but I was assured not to worry by the place where I got it that Martin has the best warranty, and I’m one of those people who thinks about warranty when buying new. It’s about the only reason in my mind to buy new with so many great used options around.
Six months later I took it to a shop that sells Martins here in Italy as the action seemed a little higher. Found out the Martin warranty only applies in North America (and would make no difference if I had bought the guitar here except I’d get a limited shop warranty).
So I’ve been looking for other options where I ether have a real warranty from the manufacturer or a neck that can be adjusted more easily. The luthier at a shop in London said he’d seen the problem on a number of Martins, and suspected it was caused by the tolerances of the Plek machines that Martin uses to set up all their guitars. It’s a great tool, but they build them within a certain range and leave the rest to the Plek. The result is often an acceptable and very playable guitar (mine) but with almost no margin for later adjustment (see pic). On the one hand, I’m disappointed that I may not be getting my dream D-18. On the other hand, it’s been fun looking into other options.


IMG_1556.jpg

[JerryM]

That photo pretty much says it all!!

[JerryM]

Just talked to a luthier at a very well known store that handles a lot of Martins and he confirmed my concern about Martin underset necks. Doesn't leave any room for adjusting action with out losing the break angle and contributes to neck sets needed much to early. Something to be aware of to protect yourself when buying new or used.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by JonWint

Tops should not be flat. Tops/braces are radiused when built. Straight edge should show clearance at edge bindings.

Flat top may indicate wood is too dry. However, it would buy more time between neck resets.

Right on the first point but not so about buying more time.

If you think the top across the lower bout behind the bridge should be flat, then forward of the bridge will be worse and you’re well on your way to a neck reset due to lack of humidity resulting in the body folding up on itself.

Seriously, if you have a new Martin make sure you are room humidifying it well and properly - this will protect the wood from contracting.

Also, make sure you have a tech who knows how to lower nut slots properly - if you haven’t experienced superbly soft action at the first fret you might believe that lowering the saddle is the solution but it isn’t.

[Mike Sylvia]

I have 3 Martin Dreads, and all are exactly the same. Actualy, I have 2 and my son has one. My HD35 is set at 3/32" at the 12th fret, and so is my DRS1. My HD35 is almost 20 years old, and my DRS1 is 3 years old. Right now the truss rod on both are as right as they can go, and the saddle is very low just like the above photo. Both play like butter, and sound incredible.

Two weeks ago my son bought himself an HD35, and it's exactly the same as well. Hopefully his never moves like mine hasn't. One thing for sure is they are very consistent.

[Kh1967]

I have, unfortunately, seen this too often. What is interesting is that I see it the most on OMs/000s and less so on dreads and 00s.

[chasapple]

Originally Posted by JerryM

I have gone thru about 8 Martins now mostly dreads but a couple of triple O's and a OO. On every one of them to get the setup for ease of play I end up with little to no saddle height, even though the neck set angle seems pretty close to optimal.
On the Collings,Bourgeois,Taylor and Gibsons I have had no problem with this. The Santa Cruz seems about like the Martins.
I don't like not having any string break over the saddle, I had one Martin slotted on the bridge top which helped some but still don't care for it. Seems like Martin could give a few thousands more angle back to help with this.
Because of this I always question when looking at buying a Martin the neck angle and saddle height and the action at the 12th fret. Getting very Leary of them because once the saddle sinks enough and the neck moves a little the only remedy is a neck set. I have had two done and it was 650 dollars each time. But once they reset them they ended up with good action and plenty of saddle? That's what makes me think the factory set is a little flat.
Anyone else noticed this problem on their guitars? or have I just been unlucky? I picked up a brand new HD28 at GC and the neck set was so bad there was a good 3/8" space at 12 and you could actually see it without a straight edge! They had the price marked down 500 dollars but a new set would eat that up, the salesman said they'd had it a long time because it was so hard to play. Why GC doesn't send it back I don't know. The neck was straight so not a truss problem.

I have seen the exact same thing in 00-18 from a few years ago and a dread Jr. also. The neck angle is too flat as you describe.