#106
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On one hand, the vendor with the lowest price on reverb may simply be more efficient than his 'ethical' competitor, on the other hand he may have stolen it and is fencing it. Each consumer isn't going to draw his or her ethical line on exactly the same spot on that continuum. It could also be that the vendor with the higher price is gouging or 'unethically' fleecing the consumer. If the added value consists of intangibles like: better service later on, being able to try the instrument, getting a good feeling from supporting local business, national pride, an enhanced sense of ethics, etc. OK fine, those factors should be considered and given their proper weight in the purchase, but that weight will differ with every distinct consumer.
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Guild DV6 (1998 Westerly) Guild GAD D140 Cordoba Acero D11 Yamaha FG 410A Cordoba Acero D9ce |
#107
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The truth is that there is something in between being a business and a charity. A business can be sustainable and community-minded without being a "charity." Healthy communities can only arise and stay if there is a healthy mix between the two. The only reason Americans and people in other wealthy nations enjoy cheap prices is because there are less fortunate people in poor countries making the stuff at prices that would never be possible if everybody involved was payed a fair price for their contribution. If I always give my business to the cheapest bidder, I have no business complaining about my employer outsourcing my job to China, because they're simply following my own logic. And if you think this to the end, you will arrive at the conclusion that in the end, everybody here (minus a select few whose wealth is protected) will end up in the same economic situation as some poor Chinese factory worker. (Which, incidentally, appears to be the way several of the wealthier countries appear to be heading.) When I learned about Amazon not paying income tax, I canceled my Prime membership and made a resolution to either buy local, or not buy at all, which is an often-overlooked, but ultimately very rewarding, policy. Something to think about.
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"I've always thought of bluegrass players as the Marines of the music world" – (A rock guitar guy I once jammed with) Martin America 1 Martin 000-15sm Recording King Dirty 30s RPS-9 TS Taylor GS Mini Baton Rouge 12-string guitar Martin L1XR Little Martin 1933 Epiphone Olympic 1971 square neck Dobro Last edited by Basalt Beach; 02-19-2019 at 09:23 AM. Reason: political content |
#108
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I've only bought one guitar online, a demo D'Angelico archtop off Reverb. This was before GC started selling them, and no one near me stocked them. It turned out to be a great guitar, but I did have an issue with delays in shipping. Weather related, it was understandable to a point.
I greatly prefer to try in-person. Lots of guitars look good "on-paper", there's no substitute for a road test. I couldn't be bothered with back&forth shipping just to try something, and besides, too much can go wrong with that process. There have been guitars I've been tempted by, browsing on-line- until I tried it in a store! Like live music, local shops need support, too, if there's going to be real-life world for musicians. |
#109
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Guild DV6 (1998 Westerly) Guild GAD D140 Cordoba Acero D11 Yamaha FG 410A Cordoba Acero D9ce Last edited by Basalt Beach; 02-19-2019 at 09:24 AM. Reason: edit quote |
#110
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This gives what looks like a good breakdown of why Amazon did not pay federal tax in 2017:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/am...al-taxes-2017/ I see no issue with Amazon taking some of its hard earned money and paying (probably handsomely paying) tax lawyers to look through the legal code in order to minimize the company's tax burden. It's no less ethical than when I pay a tax specialist to look through my records and ensure I benefit from any legal tax deduction for which I am eligible. They invested in the attorneys (unless the attorneys were part of some business/charity hybrid ) who (hopefully) provided a good return on the investment. They'll continue to get my business any time they provide the best value.
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Guild DV6 (1998 Westerly) Guild GAD D140 Cordoba Acero D11 Yamaha FG 410A Cordoba Acero D9ce |
#111
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Guild DV6 (1998 Westerly) Guild GAD D140 Cordoba Acero D11 Yamaha FG 410A Cordoba Acero D9ce |
#112
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Also I believe in terms of revenue it is actually Sweetwater that is the largest combined brick and mortar and online music equipment retailer, by a significant margin Some $507 million in 2016 to CME's 37.8 million
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 02-18-2019 at 03:59 PM. |
#113
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I agree completely that we all need to act in our best interest. But what is really our best interest as people of our country...and of the world? I think a thriving world is best for all involved. I want to live in a community with healthy and happy people. If one group of people accumulates most of the wealth and health, while the minority has not.....who are they going to sell to? Last edited by Kerbie; 02-19-2019 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Removed prohibited topic. |
#114
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I've gotten way more responses and stirred-up way more fervor than I'd anticipated. For the record, I spread my money around and won't look any great opportunity...Craigslist, eBay, Reverb, down. Mostly, I buy through my regional guitar shops that have both a great brick and mortar and online presence. I'll even buy online but pickup and have a new guitar setup and worked on with any future problems with one of my area shops. I do not buy from Guitar Center but realize that I'm fortunate to live in a region with a plethora of great independent, one-off shops so I'm not at the mercy of GC. I think it's simply about spending with a conscience...not always buying based on price and price alone but using your dollar to command superior service thereby paying homage to both the past and the present. Unlike the case with Walmart, small, independent but very good shops are still in business and it's not too late to help save them. If you don't, it won't be long before you've very few places to play before purchasing and you'll be passing on getting that great, one on one buying and future service experience.
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#115
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This is an interesting thread with some insight into the instrument buying and selling side. As for local businesses suffering, I don't disagree, but we never know if we can "blame" external factors such as online stores or if it's intrinsic to a local store making unwise business decisions.
I live in a smaller city that has a few music stores, and is also blessed with a top notch luthier who is also a dealer for several known brands. I visit his store several times a year to get service for my instruments, events, buying accessories, or to chat and mingle with the local musicians that hang out there. He is active on social media, goes to NAMM to check out new brands, and I think he is doing well. Mentioned expanding the store. Since I met him about six years ago I have bought several higher end guitars online (eBay and forums), and none in his store. This is not because he has higher prices, but simply because I have an eclectic taste in guitars and prefer fairly unique pieces and he did not inventory what I was looking for. However, I have ordered one of his first ukuleles which should be done in the next few weeks. |
#116
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This is not a guitar company but one my company does business with. They are going bankrupt. The reason is the one the OP mentions is hitting the music store business. From this and other examples, we can see it's not just music stores but other brick and mortar businesses as well.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pay...ores-1.5024739 Payless, founded in Kansas in 1956, grew to become one of the biggest shoe sellers in the world, selling more than 110 million pairs a year in its heyday. But the company has been hit by the same maladies attacking many bricks and mortar retailers right now, as the rise of online shopping moves consumer spending away from them. Last edited by Steadfastly; 02-19-2019 at 03:04 PM. |
#117
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I look at Reverb more as a place to look for used instruments, which might be a specific model with specific specs or finish, a certain year(s), condition, etc. In those cases I'm looking for something pretty specific which might only be avail at one or 2 places(retailer or private) at any given time.
If I'm buying new, ALL of my purchases in last 15 years have been from local, independent shops (except a $199 starter guitar for my son). I might use Reverb to check out what new models/specs are out there and pricing, but only as it makes me a more informed buyer when working with my local shop. I guess all this means I'm a loyal "local" buyer regarding new guitars. If I wanted e.g., a D-28, I would wait 4 or 8 weeks for my local guy to get one in for me, before I'd buy one immediately on-line from another retailer. I do this because I want to have a local shop to visit, play instruments at, get service done, etc. (BTW: I don't find this causes me to pay more, perhaps "sometimes" when adding tax, but not always.) |
#118
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#119
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Honestly, I buy from where I can get the best value for my money. Business models change, businesses either adapt or get out - Blockbuster, Yahoo, Barnes and Noble, Banks, Vinyl/CDs,...you name the business...even currency now is getting a boost from bitcoin .
I work my money, it is not given to me. Same principles apply when I spend it. If I go to a store and they ask the same price (or just a few dollars over) as an online dealer, I give them the business, otherwise I buy online. |
#120
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Who do you have work on your guitars? This is one area that helps independent guitar shops considerably. Buy there and get great, lifetime follow-through.
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