this is an incredibly hard instrument

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by ng0k

I'm a beginner(plus) player and it's frustrating most of the time. I'm always confused at the approaches and styles and never really know what to practice. I took lessons for six months and it helped me a lot, but I'm still overwhelmed with all there is to learn and how long it takes to get through a simple melody without screwing up.

On top of that, I'm busy with family and/or tired at night and don't practice like I want to, so often I wonder if I should find another hobby.

Most of the time I pick it up and play simple chord progressions and blues bars. I'm not very good and probably never will be but, it's fun anyway.

Doug

This post is not specifcially directed at Doug, but instead to all who can relate to his post. He posted very well the struggle that many experience during the course of learning to play (or continuing on with their learning after getting to some level of proficiency).

Over the years, I have taught guitar periodically, and this is probably the most common complaint I have heard from adult students. I have also experienced these things, since I believe them to be typical for many of us who play guitar at any level. A good teacher can help you to sift through all that there is to learn, and help you to focus o those things you need to learn to play what it is you want to learn to play. Further, the teacher should be able to dole out the material in a sensible order and in amounts that you can grapple with realistically, based on the other demands in your life.

The really important thing for you, assuming you want to work wiith a teacher, would be to find one who will do this, and who you trust will take you where you want to go. If you know that you can spare, say, a half hour a day to practice, then the amount of material that you "bite off" should reflect that time frame realistically. If you have more time on a given day, then you can explore other tihgs on your own with that time or put more time into the material for that week so as to learn it more completely than you might otherwise.

Finally, a teacher can serve as a motivator/coach, with the weekly lesson being the focal point that you are working toward each week as a short-term goal. The long-term goal is fine, but it can be difficult to stay motivated to do something today that you don't feel like doing, for a goal that is years away. Short term goals (i.e. being prepared for the weekly lesson with your teacher) can really help with that IF you have a teacher for whom you WANT to be prepared. The teacher, at the lesson, can help you refine things that you might not be doing quite right, such as in your technique, that s/he knows will probably inhibit your growth as a player later on. Posture, attention to fingering details, counting, etc. - all these things can inhibit your playing later on if not attended to early on so as to develop good habits now so you don't always have to focus on these things when grappling with more demanding material later on.

OK, that is my take on working with a teacher. Think of it this way - you are going into big, rough terrain in search of something specific, such as a rare flower or wildlife or treasure. You have never been in this terrain before, and all you know is that you must get to that thing you are searching for. Without an experienced guide, you may never find that thing, and worse, you might never come out alive if you get lost or hurt badly. A good teacher is that guide. A bad teacher (or simply one not matched to your way of learning and/or where you want to go musically) can be like a bad guide in that it can end up as a total disaster for both of you at worse, and lost time at best.

You can be that teacher/guide for yourself, as many of us are doing. However, all that I have said here still applies. Since you are going into terrain that you are not yet familiar with, it is a case of the "blind leading the blind" - unless you find a course of study that is designed to be self-directed so you provide the motivation and willpower for yourself to get through it steadily. There are such courses, but whether they will take you where you want to go is a decision you have to make. Many of us have spent all too much time floundering, with spurts of direction and associated progress. In a sense, we have too much material available these days, rather than not enough, as was the case years ago.

Some people seem to be able to make do and succeed even without all the training materials we have today. Evidence of that is the fact that there have been many truly great guitar players long before all these materials were available. In fact, much of the material today teaches how to play like these earlier players did. But the sad fact is that these people were/are the exception rather than the rule. Most of us need to be led, especially in the earlier stages of learning.

I would suggest that you either find another teacher, since you did well with one for a period of time. If that is not currently possible, then search through these forums where you will find discussions among people who have tried various means of self-study. Find out what worked for them and what didn't and why, and then, knowing yourself and your goals, determine if any of these materials might be a reasonable choice for you. I am sure you can contact some of these people privately or openly ask by starting a thread on the subject, to determine in more detail what courses of study people have used and whether these REALLY worked out for them. Especially for the self-directed learner, these forums are a great place to get that kind of information.

Tony

[razztazz]

Originally Posted by Oetomoepi

I am not giving up yet. I sure hope that you don't.
Merry Christmas.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but, what was the famous line from that Dirt Harry movie? "A mans got to know his limitations"

Some of this is due to just plain ability/talent, some is no doubt due to my "Learning Window". If I had had the time/opportunity earlier in life the results would have been better. But life is not all about GHEE-tar playin'. One can be satisfied (if not totally so) at less than Chet Atkins level output

I just need to be as good as I need to be. We can all take voice lessons but how many would end up sounding like Mario Lanza or Pavarotti? One in a jillion. Maybe 1/2 in a jillion.

[ng0k]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Many of us have spent all too much time floundering, with spurts of direction and associated progress. In a sense, we have too much material available these days, rather than not enough, as was the case years ago.

Tony

So many books and websites that can be confusing as to what is good and bad. I only quit lessons because of budget reasons. My teacher was excellent.

Thanks for the good advice!

[skyver]

Only those who have tried to play it know how hard it can be. When I see someone like John Williams play and make it look so smooth and easy, I can really appreciate the work and time he has put into it.

Sometimes I've played a song and think it sounds pretty good until I record it; then I notice all the mistakes and glitches. When I was younger that would make me want to give up, but now I just buckle down and get back to work.

[razztazz]

Originally Posted by skyver

Sometimes I've played a song and think it sounds pretty good until I record it; then I notice all the mistakes and glitches. When I was younger that would make me want to give up, but now I just buckle down and get back to work.

One thing I've noticed is even when *I* can notice all the mistakes and amateurish sounding playing, other people usually think it sounds good. Not Lindsey Buckingham good, but ya know "Hey, you're pretty good with that thing".

I still want to play better to please ME, but there's a ceiling to how much self-flogging and "salt mining" I want to spend my life doing

[oldhippiegal]

Originally Posted by razztazz

I'm too big (and probably too cynical) to cry but big enough to curse a lot.

.

Another reason to use a metronome. Cursing is so much more pleasant when done to a beat.

[oldhippiegal]

Originally Posted by BigD

There is a great deal of satisfaction in achieving a goal, except the difficulty can be actually defining that goal in an anything-is-possible creative world of music. When you are self taught, you often learn a bit of this, a bit of that and then noodle for hours. Part of the wonder of hearing people that play really well is that they have distilled, framed and presented their art from many disperate ideas and influences.

What we need is a unified theory of learning guitar

BigD

I'm waiting, BigD. Sounds like a great idea!

I'm certainly guilty of being self-taught with all the good and bad that entails, but lately I wonder if it's as problematic for me as it is for others to be self-taught. I've taken up my first (gratis) guitar student, a woman friend who picked up the guitar a year before me but has learned pretty much nothing, three chords, one strumming pattern, little else. She's progressing now, and it struck me that some people must need a teacher more than others, even one as mediocre in skill as I (not as a teacher, but as a guitarist--I'm confident that I'm a good teacher). She just doesn't have that...heck, I don't know what it is, some combination of musical background and ear and training and talent required to learn it on her own. Or maybe she just needs someone to say "yes, that's it, keep on," and it's a psychological need...I'm not sure, but for whatever reason, she really benefits from a teacher.

I'm a lifelong autodidact and I'm beginning to see that's actually a skill, too, understanding how to learn on your own, when to ask advice or guidance, and the various places where it's available.

[oldhippiegal]

Originally Posted by razztazz

One thing I've noticed is even when *I* can notice all the mistakes and amateurish sounding playing, other people usually think it sounds good. Not Lindsey Buckingham good, but ya know "Hey, you're pretty good with that thing".

I've had that experience, too. And I've heard mistakes w/ my own ears while I recorded on my mp3, and when I play it back, it even sounds fine to me on playback. As I'm playing, I somehow exaggerate the mistakes or hear every single one. Somehow, as a whole song, in rhythm, those mistakes are barely noticeable. Odd. At least I know it's the case, and I've learned to not let those perceived mistakes stop me or send me nervously into more mistakes. Instead I say, "probably no one heard that but me." If it's a delusion, it's a pleasant one.

[BigD]

I think many self taught people have little milestones or epiphanies in their playing development then give them a little boost. These are often triggered by hearing someone play something (this can also be a deterrent too!) or a nugget of information given by a teacher.

I recently posted about my complete lack of ability to strum. So I thought I'd do what someone suggested and check out youtube and found this

In these 10 minutes was all the basics: divide beat into 16th notes; continuous fluid right-hand movement; damp-on damp off.

All I can hear when he plays the later examples is that brilliant chukka funky sound which is really what I want to achieve.

Armed with this very basic knowledge, I reckon I have saved weeks of hopeless noodling, trying to work out what is going on. So practice is obviously the key to progress, but guidance can accelerate the learning process.

My point here is not to endorse any method, but to point out how even some very brief guidance can make a huge difference to your progress. The problem is ...you may not know what you don't know

BigD

[golfer]

I've tried 3 different instructors, 2 were not up to my speed and the 3rd was very good, but had to stop instruction for personal reasons.
The most difficult part of my instruction was to get some determination on what level of ability I was at. In some areas I was at the beginner level, others intermediate and still others higher.
Having gone through 2 instructiors, I was beginning to see a pattern as they were attempting to create a level of instruction for me. They wanted me to beging at the basic beginning, which ws very boring and I balked at that.
Teacher #3 had the foresight to spend time figuring out some of my abilities and we jumped into intermediate instruction, with the thoughts that we could go back to the basics on the parts I did not understand. The other thing we did that was helpful for me was meet every 2 weeks which gave me time to research on my own the difficult areas I needed to work with.
Since #3 left, I have spent a lot of time at these forums asking questions and doing my own research. The learning process has been very good for me and the last instructor really helped me find my weak areas.
I think another good instructor would really speed me up, but alas, lack of funds has stopped that process for now.
Thanks to all of you who have put up with my questions as I have become a much better musician thanks to you.
Presently I am working hard to learn the frett board as it seems every lesson improvement now seems to refrence a note above the 5th frett and I had to hunt and peck to find it. I am now at a point where I can locate any note on the frett board and am working on speed. I believe this will open many doors to chords and music theory.
Best wishes for the Christmas season.

[razztazz]

Originally Posted by oldhippiegal

Another reason to use a metronome. Cursing is so much more pleasant when done to a beat.

Ha ha! Kinda like Rap music

[rorymac0]

I've only been learning fingerstyle for 8/9 months and it's so humbling that sometimes I wish I never started. As a pic player for so long I can't remember at what stage I could do what (so am of little use re advice to beginners myself), I was always in a comfort zone more or less as I could play any rhythm and as many lead parts that I fancied tightly and naturally .. and if I couldn't I knew I'd be able to with a bit of practise and/or changing it to something I preferred (often easier natch!).
I gave up on classical lessons as a teenager and never looked back tbh but having fallen in love with fingerstyle now and not being able to play some very basic tunes properly I truly am a beginner. Sometimes I play simple chords incorrectly when I play them in my sleep with a pic.
I don't like the feeling of being completely useless as I had yesterday but soldiering on anyway (but low and behold I got a little reward this morning even though I didn't even feel like starting !).
It does my head in and dents my confidence a bit too often at the moment so I agree it really is a difficult instrument

[ocmcook]

if you can learn to enjoy the journey then learning is easy.