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  #61  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:23 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by Gregg Hermetech View Post
I've had a pair of consecutive serial number KM84s (from 1977) for about 18 months now, I bought them specifically for recording acoustic guitar. Had Andreas Grosser in Germany (ex Neumann tech) give them the once over. They are quite simply the best mics I have ever heard, and just sound "right". Now I want to get a pair of KK83 capsules so I can use them as Omni mics too. I pair them with a Chandler TG2 pre. Sounds as good as anything I hear on my fave 70's recordings.
What a great find !!! It seems the venerable 84 has been one of most well regarded acoustic guitar SD condenser microphones of all time. A real shame they do not make them anymore .
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Last edited by KevWind; 11-04-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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  #62  
Old 11-04-2019, 05:21 AM
Gregg Hermetech Gregg Hermetech is offline
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Yes, although there is some speculation that they might start making them again. They have "reissued" some of their other classics over the last few years, and you can still buy the KK84 capsules brand new direct from Neumann.
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  #63  
Old 09-11-2020, 12:46 PM
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https://youtu.be/7LuQmsNXMAQ

Borrowed a friends Neumann KM 184 pair this morning and nerded out for bit trying to do a quick comparison to my Gefell M 300s pair. **This is not scientific at all, though there was a ruler involved! Yes, I know I didn’t even get completely in tune

It’s X/Y, nine inches from guitar, right over the soundhole, pointed at upper rim of guitar. Went into my Apogee Element 46, then Logic using my saved X/Y template. There’s a HP and very slight EQ tweak just to touch a few things about my very modestly treated room -I’m sure if you listen close you can hear three kids doing who-knows-what close by.. There's no compression, but did have reverb on. There’s a little limiting. Zero changes to any template setting except to try get them to the same volume.

To my humble ears these two are a lot closer I have thought having done a deep dive in internet folklore just before. Shout out to everyone on Gearslutz that say they are “night and day different,” “no comparison,” or that 184’s “are way too harsh,” etc.
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Last edited by min7b5; 09-11-2020 at 03:11 PM.
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  #64  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:02 PM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Very close. The 300 sound slightly brighter then the 184 on my MacBookPro.

What would be cool would be to hear a pair of KM 84. When I have compared KM 84 with KM184, the KM 184 always sounded bright and a bit harsh in comparison.
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  #65  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
What would be cool would be to hear a pair of KM 84..
I know of a nice pair in town I could probably rent (I used them for my June Apple album) but I'm not that motivated
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  #66  
Old 09-11-2020, 02:02 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by min7b5 View Post
https://youtu.be/7LuQmsNXMAQ

Borrowed a friends Neumann KM 184 pair this morning and nerded out for bit trying to do a quick comparison to my Gefell M 300s pair. **This is not scientific at all, though there was a ruler involved! Yes, I know I didn’t even get completely in tune

It’s X/Y, nine inches from guitar, right over the soundhole, pointed at upper rim of guitar. Went into my Apogee Element 46, then Logic using my saved X/Y template. There’s a HP and very slight EQ tweak just to touch a few things about my very modestly treated room -I’m sure if you listen close you can hear three kids doing who-knows-what close by.. There's no compression, but did have reverb on. There’s a little limiting. Zero changes to any template setting except to try get them to the same volume.

To my humble ears these two are a lot closer I have thought having done a deep dive in internet folklore just before. Shout to everyone on Gearslutz that say they are “night and day different,” “no comparison,” or that 184’s “are way too harsh,” etc. You’ve got waaay better ears than me. Personally I’m confident I could comp together a track from both and be very content.
Thanks so much for doing this test!
I do hear a clear difference between the two pairs, however, both are good, just slightly different.
Like you, I do think that 184's are way over dramatized and are an excellent choice for the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
Very close. The 300 sound slightly brighter then the 184 on my MacBookPro.

What would be cool would be to hear a pair of KM 84. When I have compared KM 84 with KM184, the KM 184 always sounded bright and a bit harsh in comparison.
That seems to be the general consensus of the difference between 184 and km84....And many people think the Gefell 300 are closer to the KM84.
Myself, I do not really hear the Gefell's as being brighter...(although their frequency graph would confirm your ears). I hear a tonal flavor what I have always described as showcasing more of the fundamentals, and slightly negating some of the overtones. Or something like that.
Basically, the 184 gives and edge to each note plucked. The 300's are smoother but add a slight tonal difference. From your comparison and others, That is how I hear it anyway.
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  #67  
Old 09-11-2020, 03:01 PM
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I feel a certain amount of "thinness" in the Gefells compared to the Neumanns. As the guitar is "arpeggiated" the strings sound a tad thinner and harsher on the Gefells. The Neumanns seem to have a tad bit of upper mid that smooths things out a bit.


Bob
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  #68  
Old 09-11-2020, 03:18 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I feel a certain amount of "thinness" in the Gefells compared to the Neumanns. As the guitar is "arpeggiated" the strings sound a tad thinner and harsher on the Gefells. The Neumanns seem to have a tad bit of upper mid that smooths things out a bit.


Bob
I think KM184s need the right preamp to sound great. They get slagged by so many people as being harsh, and much of that is internet folklore. Put them through a reasonably priced Neve Portico pre or Sebatron VMP and they sound great. You have to be aware of their cardoid proximity effect so position is critical to find the sweet spot between full body and too thin. But I've had mine for a long enough time to know how to get the best out of them.
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  #69  
Old 09-11-2020, 03:26 PM
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min7b5 min7b5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I feel a certain amount of "thinness" in the Gefells compared to the Neumanns. As the guitar is "arpeggiated" the strings sound a tad thinner and harsher on the Gefells. The Neumanns seem to have a tad bit of upper mid that smooths things out a bit.


Bob
Hi Bob,
I spent a lot of time going back and forth over just the arpeggio part -especially with headphones for whatever reason- and I'm with ya on that. And it was 184's that I had to cut but about 2db to match volume.
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  #70  
Old 09-11-2020, 03:42 PM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
Thanks so much for doing this test!
I do hear a clear difference between the two pairs, however, both are good, just slightly different.
Like you, I do think that 184's are way over dramatized and are an excellent choice for the money.


That seems to be the general consensus of the difference between 184 and km84....And many people think the Gefell 300 are closer to the KM84.
Myself, I do not really hear the Gefell's as being brighter...(although their frequency graph would confirm your ears). I hear a tonal flavor what I have always described as showcasing more of the fundamentals, and slightly negating some of the overtones. Or something like that.
Basically, the 184 gives and edge to each note plucked. The 300's are smoother but add a slight tonal difference. From your comparison and others, That is how I hear it anyway.
I'm pretty enamored of/with the Schoeps CMC641 supercardioids. I haven't really heard anything more natural than them.
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  #71  
Old 09-11-2020, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I feel a certain amount of "thinness" in the Gefells compared to the Neumanns. As the guitar is "arpeggiated" the strings sound a tad thinner and harsher on the Gefells. The Neumanns seem to have a tad bit of upper mid that smooths things out a bit.


Bob
This is what I'm hearing as well in this comparison. But, I have no idea why, so I'll take Bob's word on 'upper mid' explanation.
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  #72  
Old 09-11-2020, 09:40 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
I'm pretty enamored of/with the Schoeps CMC641 supercardioids. I haven't really heard anything more natural than them.
I recently purchased some Schoeps Wide Cardiod...the CMC621's and really love the sound of these mics. Super smooth.
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  #73  
Old 09-12-2020, 07:13 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
I think KM184s need the right preamp to sound great. They get slagged by so many people as being harsh, and much of that is internet folklore. Put them through a reasonably priced Neve Portico pre or Sebatron VMP and they sound great. You have to be aware of their cardoid proximity effect so position is critical to find the sweet spot between full body and too thin. But I've had mine for a long enough time to know how to get the best out of them.
Point taken. I have a friend who has worked in studios for years. He dislikes th TLM 103 and C414 because of edgy brightness. I had him over and ran the ones I have through a GML preamp and he was shocked at how good they sounded.
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  #74  
Old 09-12-2020, 09:23 AM
dhockenbury dhockenbury is offline
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I am very pleased with the 184. I use a Grace Felix with this and have had great results.
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  #75  
Old 09-12-2020, 03:53 PM
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Late to the party: Running a small studio for acoustic music (folk, singer/songwriter, finger style, bluegrass, blues, acoustic jazz ...) the KM184 was my first choice for almost twenty years. Preamps are Pendulum MDP-1, John Hardy, Avalon SP 737, Universal Audio 610) . Somewhere along the line I got a bit tired of the overly bright and harsh sounding trebles and started looking around: Gefell M300, vintage Gefell MV 691, Neumann KM84, Schoeps MK4 ...
I settled on KM84s and Schoeps MK4s and simply love it.
If money is an issue personally I would prefer Shure SM81 or KSM 137.
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