Slide players - recommendations and info on resonator guitars??

[jpbat]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

You might be right. I thought I saw the T-bar of a tricone through the grille but Sweetwater is calling it a spider. Whatever the case, the Boxcar had a lot more volume and honk!

Bob

Bob,
the Hound Dog is definitely a spider.
I note that the Hound Dog price dropped significantly lately, and I suspect the Gretsch offering being the reason. They share the same market.
The (Gibson owned) Dobro is not a bad guitar, but the Gretsch Boxcar (or Bobtail) is better, for whatever reason.

[44Runner]

Jean-Paul, I watched a couple of your videos. You are an excellent player. I think I watched another video of yours without realizing it when I was researching my resonator purchase where you installed that pickup.

I find it pretty neat that in the videos I watched you were basically using the Boxcar as a jazz box. Playing a style and sound that would normally be associated with an electric hollow body. Very cool.

I ran out to grab thumb picks when I got my resonator because I couldn't get a hard enough attack to get that resonator sound on the bass strings. You just didn't worry about it. Great videos, thanks for sharing.

[jpbat]

Originally Posted by 44Runner

Jean-Paul, I watched a couple of your videos. You are an excellent player. I think I watched another video of yours without realizing it when I was researching my resonator purchase where you installed that pickup.

I find it pretty neat that in the videos I watched you were basically using the Boxcar as a jazz box. Playing a style and sound that would normally be associated with an electric hollow body. Very cool.

I ran out to grab thumb picks when I got my resonator because I couldn't get a hard enough attack to get that resonator sound on the bass strings. You just didn't worry about it. Great videos, thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the appreciation !

Fact is, any guitar I play, I end up sounding like myself
I use arch tops too, and flat tops, gypsy, any guitar really.

I'm looking for that hybrid sound, electric/acoustic, on the jazzy side. I put magnetic PU on any guitar I own. So, *all* my guitars are sounding about the same for the listener. The only difference is in the response of the instrument, but I'm the only one who knows.

I cannot use a thumb pick because of the brush I do with the thumb, so there is a compromise to be made, but it is difficult to achieve a clean and tight enough bass sound with a naked thumb. The trick is to play *very* softly to begin with. Then the dynamic range is increased, and any small dynamic change can be used to great effect.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by 44Runner

I recently bought a Gretsch Honey Dipper that I have fallen in love with. It is a brass body, biscuit bridge. The sound is awesome and quality nothing short of amazing for the price point which is just a hair above your budget ($520).

The Gretsch Boxcar is a stunning instrument as well. It is a wood body with a spider bridge and well within your budget ($360). Here is a video Toby did with his:

I chose the Gretsch after going through 2 disappointing Hound Dogs by Epiphone, both of which had improperly filed saddles which caused the strings to 'pop' off. I'm pretty happy with my Gretsch which I now use anytime I travel overseas.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by jpbat

Roy, I can't answer to that question. There are biscuit louder than spiders (or tricones), and the reverse is true, too.
You are the only one who can find the answer.

I don't slide, I don't play blues, and I pick with a specially light touch, so I got nothing to do with resos, right ?
I love them.

I own a Boxcar and it is my favourite guitar since may 2013, when I bought it.
I own an Alligator, too. Interesting guitar, but much less than the Boxcar. I didn't yet swap the cone for a better one, so maybe…
I tried the wood body Bobtail, but I'm not interested in the Fishman PU (although I own a Fishman Jerry Douglas Aura, which is supposed to be the perfect match).
I tried the new steel body Bobtail, too, and it was a -small- deception. Nice guitar, but I was in to buy it, and… no.
The Honey Dipper is nice, too, but I already have a satisfying metal body biscuit cone (a steel one)

Overall, I must say that this Roots series from Gretsch is great.

Now, all this is only my opinion. Resos are a world to discover.

Jean Paul - what was your opinion of the Honey Dipper? How did it compare to the other Roots stuff?

I think that I may need to go all metal for the tone I'm looking for. Have you ever played any Republic resos?

Thanks for all the great info thus far!

Roy

[jpbat]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Jean Paul - what was your opinion of the Honey Dipper? How did it compare to the other Roots stuff?

I think that I may need to go all metal for the tone I'm looking for. Have you ever played any Republic resos?

Thanks for all the great info thus far!

Roy

The entire Roots line is correct QC wise. I mean, for the price, it's unbelievable, although you'll not expect the level of a few thousand bucks guitar. That's OK.

(This is how I see it : I play everyday and gig with low to mid price off the shelf guitars that I set-up -and more- myself. I take reasonable action to keep them safe, but if they are dinged or crashed or even stolen, PITA, yes, but not the end of the world. I go to the store, buy another one, it goes on the bench, and back in business)

There are several local stores that carry the Roots line, so I tried every possible models. I found the Honey Dipper cool, but I was not on the market for a brass body biscuit (I prefer steel bodies on biscuit…)
All the line use the same ergonomic and neck, and I like it, so I could use every model in that line...

I own two Republic resos, a brass tricone and a Resolian (steel biscuit). I swapped the cones for National Hot Rod on the two guitars, and the difference is significant (more on the tricone, though). I'm happy with them, but bought them 7 years ago.

I recently (in june) bought a Republic new model of tricone (14 fret with cutaway), and the experience was total fail. The transaction was made through the 12th Fret in Toronto. There was a mistake from Frank at Republic, I wanted a steel, he sent a brass. The 12th Fret didn't notice and sent me the guitar. First, it was not what I wanted. Second, the quality of the construction was *very* bad. Way worst than the two Republic guitars I own (and love). This is why I don't want to hear about Republic again. And it was my first and last experience with the 12th Fret, too. Having to wait 3 month and eat the shipping back for their own mistake is a bit over the top for me.

So there you have it :
I probably was extremely lucky with my two Republic. Try before you buy.
I find the Gretsch Roots line very well done.

I tried every reso I could find. Dean, Regal, Recording King, name it. I was not impressed by any.
I tried also every possible National reso I could put my hand on. I was not impressed either. Don't get me wrong : they were very nice guitars, very well made and all. But not worth their price, in *my* book.

Resos are special beasts. They are basically mechanic, so you can upgrade them a great deal, much more than wooden guitars.

[Martz911]

Roy - - Have you seen my current listing here on the AGF?

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=361991

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Martz911

Roy - - Have you seen my current listing here on the AGF?

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=361991

No, but just checked it out. If i go close to 5 bills I will probably go with all metal and buy from Sweetwater (I can use 24 months same as cash). I'm starting to think all metal is what I need for the sound I hear in my head. Thanks though.

Roy

[roylor4]

Jean Paul,

Thanks for the info. The Honey Dipper is starting to look like a front runner to me. Dang the extra weight - I want TONE & VOLUME.

I appreciate your thoughtful and honest responses.

Roy

[44Runner]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Jean Paul,

Thanks for the info. The Honey Dipper is starting to look like a front runner to me. Dang the extra weight - I want TONE & VOLUME.

I appreciate your thoughtful and honest responses.

Roy

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Honey Dipper. It is REALLY nice and it's down right amazing that you can get that guitar for the kind of money it is going for on the street.

The only thing I would change on it is the V-neck but I don't think it bothers me as much as it normally would because of the already foreign to me slide that I am using so it is like I am playing a different instrument entirely. When I play a V-neck Martin it feels weird but this just doesn't...

[Bob Womack]

So today I went to another store and spent two hours auditioning Gretsches, a pair of G9202 Honey Dippers and a G9240 Alligator. The Honey Dipper and the Alligator are both biscuit resos. The Honey Dipper has a painted bell brass body and the Alligator has a laminated mahogany body. They share the same bound neck and resonator. I brought my "second ears" (my musically-trained wife) to sit across from me and listen and also took time to lay the guitar down lat on my lap and play slide lap style so I could hear the guitar's tone.

The differences? The Alligator puts out more high-end tone than the Honey Dipper, is woodier, and is considerably quieter. The Honey Dipper is louder, has more of the classic Dobro "honk," and rolls off the high-end in a way that eliminates a bunch of the slide chatter. It also has a very pleasant "ring" in the body that functions a little like reverb. It has the classic delta blues sound. Interestingly, the pink (Desert Flower) 'Dipper was a little less bold sounding than the Green (Swamp Green) one. My wife and I both liked the swamp green one the best of the group by a long shot. When I first auditioned them all three of these had intonation issues. The salesman took them back to the tech and he somehow squared them away a bit. Not perfect but pretty good.

And the difference between the Honey Dipper and the Boxcar we discussed before? Oh. My. Gosh. Night and day. More volume and honk. More "rootsy."

I auditioned a Regal square neck the other day for contrast. It sounded very, um... bluegrass. A nice guitar, but very bluegrass, if that is what you want.

Now, here are the local street dollar figures:
Honey Dipper $549
Alligator $399
Boxcar $349
Regal RD-40 Square neck $499

You can order a gig bag for $49 or a case for $149 for the Gretsches. If I spring for the reso I'll spring for the case.

Bob

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The differences? The Alligator puts out more high-end tone than the Honey Dipper, is woodier, and is considerably quieter. The Honey Dipper is louder, has more of the classic Dobro "honk," and rolls off the high-end in a way that eliminates a bunch of the slide chatter. It also has a very pleasant "ring" in the body that functions a little like reverb. It has the classic delta blues sound. Interestingly, the pink (Desert Flower) 'Dipper was a little less bold sounding than the Green (Swamp Green) one. My wife and I both liked the swamp green one the best of the group by a long shot. When I first auditioned them all three of these had intonation issues. The salesman took them back to the tech and he somehow squared them away a bit. Not perfect but pretty good.

And the difference between the Honey Dipper and the Boxcar we discussed before? Oh. My. Gosh. Night and day. More volume and honk. More "rootsy."
Bob

Bob - PM sent to you. Thanks for the comparison.

Roy

[Bob Womack]

Roy asked me to clarify:

I was saying that the Honey Dipper is louder and with much more honk than either the Boxcar or the Alligator even though the Alligator is a biscuit reso as well. My wife and I definitely preferred the sound of the Honey Dipper. I hope that's useful!

Bob

[blue]

In general the three types of resos are associated with 3 different types of music.

Spiders (designed by John Dopyera, the inventor of the National tricone after leaving National to start Dobro) have been associated with country/bluegrass from the beginning

biscuit (designed by George Beauchamp, the Magneto to John Dopyera's Professor X) has been associated with rough and tumble "country blues". Think Son House and Bukka White. Guys that punch the guitar in the mouth and take no prisoners.

Tricone, which is arguably the best design of the two National styles for slide, was the original John Dopyera design. Originally associated with Hawaiian music, and later adopted by more sophisticated blues players like Tampa Red, but also used as a status symbol when some country blues types made some money.

I've not gotten into spiders, but have both biscuits and tricones. The tricones are far more versatile. I would highly recommend comparing tricone to spider.

Here is a video with good sonic representations of the biscuit and tricone using National guitars. The lesson applies to asian imports as well

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by blue

In general the three types of resos are associated with 3 different types of music.

Spiders (designed by John Dopyera, the inventor of the National tricone after leaving National to start Dobro) have been associated with country/bluegrass from the beginning

biscuit (designed by George Beauchamp, the Magneto to John Dopyera's Professor X) has been associated with rough and tumble "country blues". Think Son House and Bukka White. Guys that punch the guitar in the mouth and take no prisoners.

Tricone, which is arguably the best design of the two National styles for slide, was the original John Dopyera design. Originally associated with Hawaiian music, and later adopted by more sophisticated blues players like Tampa Red, but also used as a status symbol when some country blues types made some money.

I've not gotten into spiders, but have both biscuits and tricones. The tricones are far more versatile. I would highly recommend comparing tricone to spider.

Here is a video with good sonic representations of the biscuit and tricone using National guitars. The lesson applies to asian imports as well

Thanks for the history lesson as well as the video. I had checked it out a few days ago myself.

"Guys that punch the guitar in the mouth and take no prisoners." - Nice. LOL.

I think that I have reached a decision - all metal biscuit for me. I don't need versatility really, gonna be playing old school blues in open tuning with a slide. If I ever get good enough to actually be versatile (& have a slightly thicker wallet) I will definitely look at Tricones too.

I appreciate everyone's input. BIG TIME. I will be ordering a Gretsch Honey Dipper as soon as Sweetwater has them back in stock.

Roy