Which blues harp for mixolydian scales?

[Charlie Bernstein]

Yesterday I played at a farmers market with a blues harp friend who likes to cross-harp. For simple I-IV-V songs, I say the song's key and he grabs the IV harp to cross-harp. Like if I say E, he grabs an A harp.

Likewise, if the key is minor, I'll name the relative major and he'll grab the cross-harp. If it's in E-minor, I'll say G and he'll grab C.

But yesterday there were a few that use mixolydian scales, and I couldn't figure out what harps he should use.

So for instance, if a song's progression is A / G / D / A /, what's the best harp choice? D cross-harp, because the song has an A and a D? D straight-harp, because that's the mixolydian scale for D?

Or does it want two harps — and if it does, which two?

Have any insights? Thanks!

[Robin, Wales]

This should be pretty straightforward. I'm in bed with covid so can't test this out live unfortunately. But, on a diatonic instrument, say in C, the mixolidian scale starts at the 5th to give TTSTTST. So a G mixolidian tune (Old Joe Clark for example) should work on a C harp. Most old time and Celtic mixolidian tunes are usually in the key of A because tin whistles and diatonic flutes were usually in D. So a D diatonic harp will play the A mixolidian scale played as straight harp (or perhaps this actually counts as cross harp?)

I'd have to play around with a harp to see if that works out for a sort of double cross harp too.

[leew3]

What Robin said, it can be more an issue of position than having to change the key. For most cross harping we're accustomed to playing in first or second position, in the case you've noted, moving up the scale a bit should get you to the right place. Or your harp player could cross over to the dark side and play a chromatic

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

This should be pretty straightforward. I'm in bed with covid so can't test this out live unfortunately. But, on a diatonic instrument, say in C, the mixolidian scale starts at the 5th to give TTSTTST. So a G mixolidian tune (Old Joe Clark for example) should work on a C harp. . . .

Yep, that's pretty much what everyone else is telling me, too. Thanks!

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by leew3

. . . Or your harp player could cross over to the dark side and play a chromatic

Actually, he crossed over to the shady side and got a concertina. He's getting the hang of it, too!

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

For simple I-IV-V songs, I say the song's key and he grabs the IV harp to cross-harp. Like if I say E, he grabs an A harp.

You kind of threw me there because the way I look at it, a C harp plays in G, which is obviously the V chord (or fifth note) in the C scale. But like you say, coming from the other direction, if the song is in I, the cross-harp to use is IV.

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

But yesterday there were a few that use mixolydian scales, and I couldn't figure out what harps he should use.

As an amateur keyboardist who has nevertheless taken a few lessons, I don't recall ever using these fancy names for scales, so I had to look it up. So mixolydian is simply a major scale with a flatted 7th, right? Well, that's probably the most common scale in all of pop and rock and country music! You'd use the normal cross-harp, which actually contains a flatted 7th (sucking on 6th hole). BTW, the Stones went against this typical usage back in 1966 with Yesterday's Papers, which prominently featured the major 7th right off the bat.

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

So for instance, if a song's progression is A / G / D / A /, what's the best harp choice? D cross-harp, because the song has an A and a D? D straight-harp, because that's the mixolydian scale for D?

Yeah, so the song's in A, D harp plays in A.

BTW2, I don't think Dylan ever cross-harped.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

You kind of threw me there because the way I look at it, a C harp plays in G, which is obviously the V chord (or fifth note) in the C scale. But like you say, coming from the other direction, if the song is in I, the cross-harp to use is IV.

Yup!

Originally Posted by DCCougar

. . . I don't recall ever using these fancy names for scales, so I had to look it up. So mixolydian is simply a major scale with a flatted 7th, right?

Dunno, but why not? My brain is confounded by sharps and flats, so to me mixo' is just the major scale of the song's fourth. It's one of the seven natural modes.

Originally Posted by DCCougar

Well, that's probably the most common scale in all of pop and rock and country music!

For pop, blues, rock, and country, I usually hear major and minor octaves, major and minor pentatonics, and blues scales that grow out of the pentatonics. Mixo' is somewhat the signature Jerry Garcia scale (which Mike Bloomfield accused Jerry of stealing from him!).

[QUOTE=DCCougar;7521408]. . . Yeah, so the song's in A, D harp plays in A.

Agreed! (See post 4.)

Originally Posted by DCCougar

BTW2, I don't think Dylan ever cross-harped.

Or Neil Young. I try to plug my ears for their harp solos.

Good thoughts. Thanks!

[Robin, Wales]

Well, that's probably the most common scale in all of pop and rock and country music!

I wrote my first song this summer, and it turned out to be mixolidian. I think that it has a tension as a mode - not quite minor but not quite major. I wouldn't say that it's common though. The Ionian scale is certainly top trumps for pop, rock and country by a country mile!

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I wrote my first song this summer, and it turned out to be mixolidian. I think that it has a tension as a mode - not quite minor but not quite major. I wouldn't say that it's common though. The Ionian scale is certainly top trumps for pop, rock and country by a country mile!

First song?! What's been keeping you?

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

First song?! What's been keeping you?

I'm a slow starter!!!