NGD - What would you do?

[steelvibe]

https://www.guitarscratchremover.com/

I've used this product on 3 different guitars now, 1 of which was a RainSong Shorty. I had a 1.5 in." deep scratch that this product pulled out wonderfully. I used it to make the guitar flawless for resale. It also took care of the belt rash on the back. There are 2 different solutions that have a micro abrasive in it. One is used for deeper marring and the other for more superficial marring.

I've also used it on a finish that I did my self called "Tru-Oil' on my Martin. It pulled a scratch out of that too. It is amazing product that has zero silicone, and that is something important to me. I can't recommend it highly enough.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Dbone

Just down noodling around on it a bit...I really feel the need to restate that it definitely is a fine guitar. I really enjoy playing it. It feels and sounds VERY good. I just love it.

I think it is all gonna be to my satisfaction in this end. That is my feeling. I would much rather see RainSong take care of any necessary polishing before it leaves their factory if there is, indeed, some part of their process after the finishing that is doing the micro marring all over the place...but whatevs...

At least my impression is that I can get it to where I want it to be in the end without the hassle of having to send it back etc...That's my feeling without being a finish polishing expert.

If anyone has any other specific tips towards what specifically I could consider doing (other products, other techniques) I'm all ears...I will probably just wait until the first string change before I do anything...

Some of the most noticeable micro marring is clearly to do with the installation of the bridge...it was the same on the other one...It is all over the place north and south of the bridge...Having the strings off will make that and things generally much easier to deal with at the time...

We were talking about the automotive polishes. Ultimately any polish should be fine. I also have a D'addario polish that works fine on light scratches. About once a year I will pull out the orbital polisher on all my guitars. It makes the job way easier. However, if you don't have access to one some good old fashioned elbow grease will work just fine, just take longer and of course more exhausting.

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

https://www.guitarscratchremover.com/

I've used this product on 3 different guitars now, 1 of which was a RainSong Shorty. I had a 1.5 in." deep scratch that this product pulled out wonderfully. I used it to make the guitar flawless for resale. It also took care of the belt rash on the back. There are 2 different solutions that have a micro abrasive in it. One is used for deeper marring and the other for more superficial marring.

I've also used it on a finish that I did my self called "Tru-Oil' on my Martin. It pulled a scratch out of that too. It is amazing product that has zero silicone, and that is something important to me. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Man, this sound like just what I need. I really appreciate you taking the time to post that up. Thanks so much...

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

We were talking about the automotive polishes. Ultimately any polish should be fine. I also have a D'addario polish that works fine on light scratches. About once a year I will pull out the orbital polisher on all my guitars. It makes the job way easier. However, if you don't have access to one some good old fashioned elbow grease will work just fine, just take longer and of course more exhausting.

Yeah, I have my hands only ;-0

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Dbone

Man, this sound like just what I need. I really appreciate you taking the time to post that up. Thanks so much...

This requires a bit of elbow grease too, but what job worth doing doesn't? The main thing is that the product works as it claims to. I will buy it again when I run out and likely won't use anything else. I think it won best of NAMM in product category too?

The problem with silicone is that once it is used it is very hard to work through/with, if not impossible. The polyurethane used by most guitar manufacturers doesn't have silicone but once you wax with it.....

Eternashine works on poly, Tru-Oil, nitrocellulose, and possibly others. I bet you will like it.

Good luck whatever you choose and congrats on your RainSong. Great guitars!

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

This requires a bit of elbow grease too, but what job worth doing doesn't? The main thing is that the product works as it claims to. I will buy it again when I run out and likely won't use anything else. I think it won best of NAMM in product category too?

The problem with silicone is that once it is used it is very hard to work through/with, if not impossible. The polyurethane used by most guitar manufacturers doesn't have silicone but once you wax with it.....

Eternashine works on poly, Tru-Oil, nitrocellulose, and possibly others. I bet you will like it.

Good luck whatever you choose and congrats on your RainSong. Great guitars!

I get the impression that it is not that aggressive...I think I like that approach...cautious etc...even if it take a little longer, more work, etc...

[David Eastwood]

Dbone, I admire your patience in all of this. I understand that you just want to take care of the finish issues, and move on.

But, in all my time here on the AGF, I cannot imagine any purchaser of an equivalent value wood guitar being anywhere near so willing to accommodate a manufacturer's poor quality control with anywhere near the same grace.

When you're spending this much money, the finish, on delivery, should be pretty much flawless, IMHO.

Happy polishing!

What RP said about filling the scratch, rubbing it out, auto polish.

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Dbone, I admire your patience in all of this. I understand that you just want to take care of the finish issues, and move on.

But, in all my time here on the AGF, I cannot imagine any purchaser of an equivalent value wood guitar being anywhere near so willing to accommodate a manufacturer's poor quality control with anywhere near the same grace.

When you're spending this much money, the finish, on delivery, should be pretty much flawless, IMHO.

Happy polishing!

Very nice of you to say...I’m try my best to be measured here...I do find the situation a bit bizarre...I definitely think they have something going on there at their factory that they need to sort out...my opinion...It really is not acceptable at this price point, and relative to the performance of other guitar manufacturers living at that price point...It really isn’t...

I hear ya...With this level of money comes certain expectations...sounds like you and I are similar...I expect a lot...

I don’t know what it is...I think my heart is more in the wood world...Let’s put it this way...If my LL56 arrives in any other condition besides perfection there will be problems :-0. Based on what I know about how Yamaha operates, particularly at that level of product, I’m not concerned. Barring some sort of problem in transit, I’m not expecting any such problems with their product.

[RP]

The more I peruse this thread, the more mystified I become. I've conservatively owned a dozen Rainsongs, mostly at the lower end of their range except for my newish V-DR1100N2. Maybe I just don't look close enough at the finish, but I've never seen the finish issues that Dbone has on back-to-back upper end Rainsongs. I don't mean to imply or suggest anything but just to say that I'm mystified...

[jonfields45]

I once owned a new D-45V. It was factory fresh via Elderly Instruments. I was still working as an engineering VP and was approaching being an out-of-control perfectionist (important in engineering as manufacturing broken stuff is not good unless you're Microsoft :~).

I found loads of cosmetic defects that I would not see today The gloss finish was not well polished over the grained ivoroid binding, several very small dings in the top that were not filled prior to finishing, and an end pin inlay that was truly "hand made".

I find my RainSongs to have been pretty near perfect to the new me. I did return one for too many loose fibers along the back seem. I do think we expect too much from CF fabric which is surprising given our experience with the randomness of wood. Lots of opaque finish seems to be the CF solution and my V-DR certainly benefits from that.

In the right light I can find polishing defects in anything.

[jonfields45]

I was at practice today with my V-DR. In the lighting in my duo partner's practice room swirl marks were visible on the back and sides. The top and neck were clean. There was a single bright incandescent bulb in the overhead ceiling fan fixture.

Now that I'm home I've dragged the guitar around a few rooms in my house, including my guitar repair bench, and the swirl marks are gone. My house is entirely LED lighting with multiple small bulbs or shades on single bulbs. Even my workbench is lit with eight 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs. Each of those bulbs are the old style flat Philips bulb where numerous individual LEDs are visible.

I guess the person I was years ago, like with the D-45V, would be going to the autoparts store for a fine polishing kit. Luckily I'm a changed man because I would first have to go buy a light where I can reliably see it...

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by RP

The more I peruse this thread, the more mystified I become. I've conservatively owned a dozen Rainsongs, mostly at the lower end of their range except for my newish V-DR1100N2. Maybe I just don't look close enough at the finish, but I've never seen the finish issues that Dbone has on back-to-back upper end Rainsongs. I don't mean to imply or suggest anything but just to say that I'm mystified...

I was more mystified when I was in the store under the very unforgiving lights that would be very suitable for doing quality control ;-0. As was the worker at the music store. They agreed it was bizarre. It looked so bad in that light initially that I told them they could keep the guitar and give me my money back. It wasn’t until the worker at Long and Macquade had the wisdom to suggest that we look at the first original guitar in the same light and saw the exact same problems that I calmed down a bit and thought better of the situation.

At that time we also looked at the finish of a few other new guitars in the same unforgiving light. They looked perfectly fine.

Those lights did not lie. The amount of scratching on this guitar is insane relative to what should be there on a factory fresh new instrument. In more normal lighting it is more tolerable to the eye, but it is definitely still there.

I would suggest that if some of you guys put your RainSongs in the same brutal lighting conditions you might learn something about your guitar that you don’t already know...

But again, if in practical terms I can clean things up myself if I feel the need then fine, and if in average light conditions it’s not that bad then I guess it’s not the end of the world. I’m confident that most, of not all, will buff out if and when I choose to do so...Just the one deeper scratch that I have some concerns about, but I have some faith that this one will buff out reasonable well too...

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I was at practice today with my V-DR. In the lighting in my duo partner's practice room swirl marks were visible on the back and sides. The top and neck were clean. There was a single bright incandescent bulb in the overhead ceiling fan fixture.

Now that I'm home I've dragged the guitar around a few rooms in my house, including my guitar repair bench, and the swirl marks are gone. My house is entirely LED lighting with multiple small bulbs or shades on single bulbs. Even my workbench is lit with eight 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs. Each of those bulbs are the old style flat Philips bulb where numerous individual LEDs are visible.

I guess the person I was years ago, like with the D-45V, would be going to the autoparts store for a fine polishing kit. Luckily I'm a changed man because I would first have to go buy a light where I can reliably see it...

The neck on mine is perfect too...The problems only present on the body...

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Dbone

The neck on mine is perfect too...The problems only present on the body...

It is possible that the factory lighting is such that they don't know. I looked at my other all gloss RainSong, again at home, and it looks fine too.

They are likely using a really hard poly finish. Taylor long ago reformulated their poly to be softer. Taylor PR said it was to be closer to nitro but my guess is it is easier to polish. A less durable soft nitro-like finish on a CF guitar does not make sense (there are no vintage CF guitars with nitro to emulate).

The black background is also a tough venue for gloss. My clear pickguards (I've made low tack and static cling versions) look great on spruce and never look as good close up on black CF (every tiny air bubble is visible where they are invisible on my partner's Taylor).

I think the V-DR top is likely no better than the back. It just isn't black and you can't see it.

The neck probably is the same but the convex curved surface does not give you the flat surface to see fine defects.

My new black Fender Strat has swirl marks I can see in the same lighting that the RainSongs look perfect.