What are the plus and minus's on Carbon Fiber?

[Gostwriter]

What do you like about Carbon Fiber

What do you not like about Carbon Fiber?

Do you use it for everything you play or specific songs or styles? I would think they would lend themselves well to acoustic blues fingerpicking & slide playing, is that correct?

[la palma C]

bumping for interest.

seems that most people who play 'em have nothing but praise. i would like to hear some cons, especially from carbon fans/players

[mchalebk]

The main pluses are that they are mostly impervious to environmental conditions (no need to worry about humidity) and they're much sturdier than their wood counterparts. Furthermore, they don't have issues like wood does when it comes to designs like 12-strings, so no need for heavier braces (or braces at all) or thicker tops.

The main minus, for most players, is they're not made of wood. (Most guitarists can't buy into the concept.) Most players get over this pretty quickly once they own their first CF guitar.

A lot of CF guitars are known for having more crystalline treble tones, though not all. In particular, the CA guitars are known for sounding much like they're made of wood (braces are used to make them sound more like traditional guitars). The other manufacturers (RainSong, Emerald, Blackbird) don't much try to make their guitars sound like wood (though some of the newer RainSongs apparently come a lot closer).

In my opinion, they lend themselves to acoustic guitar music of all kinds and are not particularly suited for any one style.

[00Buck]

I've only seen a few of these and some picture on the net, but a big minus for me is the appearance. They strike me as unattractive. Plus they'll drive you crazy if you're at all astigmatic.

[jbryant]

I've owned my CA 7i for about 3 years now. It is my main gig guitar. Comparing it to a wooden guitar the CA stays in tune much better in different climate changes. I live in Austin Texas (hot & Humid) and a lot of my gigs are outside so this is very important to me. The sound is really not like any other guitar. This thing has so much sustain and bottom end...It just sounds incredible plugged in. It doesn't project as much or is as loud as my wooden OM but like I said...I mainly use it plugged in at gigs. The only other negative about it is that in extreme temperature condiditons the carbon tends to get hot or cold depending on which it is. It can become somewhat uncomfortable. Otherwise a great guitar. I still had to have a wooden one though for playing in the living room and at acoustic jams but as a gig guitar it can't be beat.

[rwskaggs]

I take my Rainsong dread just about anywhere, and love the ease of care it offers. Very little tuning adjustments needed unless the tuners get bumped (I use the big gigbag for ease of carry).

Got mine without barndoor electronics/preamp so I could install a passive JJB Prestige UBT. I can still use it as a canoe paddle without shorting anything out...

Carbon composites have a clear bell-like tone to me, but they don't have the "complexity" of wood (in my hands, anyway). They are extremely responsive to a light OR heavy touch, but ALWAYS sound pretty much the same. Whether I use a pick or fingerstyle, the differences between styles can be heard, but light or heavy on either one just varies the volume.

I think this is both good and bad. Good for gigs and audience participation/singalongs - you always know what to expect. Less so, when you are wrapped around your guitar in private, learning a new song and trying to nuance the notes, chords and transitions.

This will probably stir up a storm on both sides, but it's been my experience thusfar. Any dissenting comments are welcome!

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by rwskaggs

Carbon composites have a clear bell-like tone to me, but they don't have the "complexity" of wood (in my hands, anyway).

This is true with many CF guitars. However, I do think my CA Vintage Performer (dreadnought, same as vintage Legacy model) has a complex, wood-like tone. The CA models do not have the clear bell-like tone that many CF guitars have. Whether this is good or not comes down to personal taste.

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by 00Buck

I've only seen a few of these and some picture on the net, but a big minus for me is the appearance. They strike me as unattractive. Plus they'll drive you crazy if you're at all astigmatic.

First, it's worth pointing out that many of these don't photograph well (in other words, they look better in person than in photos). Plus, there are so many different models that even you could probably find some you thought were attractive.

There certainly are CF guitars that have styling cues I don't care for, but there are so many choices that most people could likely find something that did appeal visually. Of course, they're still not made of wood, and I realize that most guitarists will never get over that. However, if you can get over it, there are many advantages to CF construction.

[denny1948golf]

I'm a recent convert. I recently purchased a Rainsong Jumbo with the unidirectional top. I'd describe the tone as very articulate. Bass response is rich, but clear without any muddiness. Balance and volume are excellent. I walked into my local Guitar Center today for strings for a Rainsong Shorty I'm trying out. They had four different Rainsong models in the acoustic room. I played all four and the common sound is the clarity/articulation with good bass response and louder than any of the wood guitars I tried today. As far as rich powerful tone, My Jumbo is really a step above the other Rainsong's I tried. Both my Jumbo and The Shorty I'm trying out take alternative tuning's better than any guitar I've owed. The Jumbo was better than the Shorty though. I think because of the shorter scale of the Shorty.

As far as negatives go, I hear a very metallic tone on the 4th string "D" especially when fretting the first few frets with the 2nd fret "E" being the worst. It's worse on The Shorty I'm trying, but I could here this to some degree on the four Rainsongs I tried today at GC. By the way, I can only hear this when using a pick, and yes, I tried various picks. Some may call this a ghost tone. Funny thing, I do not hear this on my Jumbo. Now, I'm waiting to get slammed for this.

[LoMa]

I've had a couple of CA Cargo's and still have one. Very cool small body, short scale guitars, that have a very big bass response. I like the tone until you get to the trebles high up the neck, where they get a metallic, synthesizer tone that I don;t much like. Otherwise, I love the tone of these little guitars. Very responsive to fingerstyle with mostly fingertip and only some nail.

There is also one other thing about my pre-Peavey Cargo - the edge feels real sharp after awhile where I rest my arm on the guitar body.

Many years ago I played Rainsong and hated it - didn't sound like a guitar to me. They have probably evolved since then though, or perhaps I have...

Haven't played any other CF guitars, though I am looking forward to trying out a very small-bodied Emerald X5os for camping and travel.

[catdaddy]

I've owned a CA Gxi for several years now. As has been mentioned, the carbon fiber construction makes it virtually impervious to ambient conditions such as humidity and temperature. For a Florida picker like myself that is a really important feature. I love being able to throw the guitar in the trunk of my car any time of year (including summer) and have it handy for playing wherever I go. Also my Gxi has what CA called its 'road tough' finish which is pretty close to scratch resistent. Thumps, bumps and knocks aplenty have not resulted in a single ding, scrape or scratch of its surface.

This guitar also has the ability to stay in tune better than any other guitar I've ever owned. Its intonation is spot on and there is no need for fussing with truss rods or doing set-ups to compensate for seasonal changes. A string change now and then and that is all. Very low maintenance.

On the down side there is the tone. It just doesn't thrill me. I much prefer the sound of any of my wood guitars. The Gxi has a pronounced bass emphasis (sort of Martin-like) which is a sound that I prefer but there is something sterile or lacking overall. Perhaps it is the 'complexity' of wood tone that another poster mentioned. And although it is a guitar that is loud and projects well when played with a pick it is very hard for me to get good volume or projection when I do all flesh (no picks) fingerpicking.

In spite of how I feel about it, I've been in several situations where listeners have commented very favorably on the tone of this guitar. I took it to a guitar camp and had folks constantly asking me about it and wanting to know where they could get one. As I sat listening to others play the guitar I felt that the projected sound of the guitar to the listener is better than what the player is hearing. With the offset soundhole that would seem to be counter-intuitive but that is what I heard.

Overall, I'm delighted to have this guitar as a travel/camping/festival guitar. It is perfect for those purposes and although not a tone monster (in my opinion) its good enough for most situations.

[jonfields45]

All my acoustics are now composite (RS CO-DR1100N2, Peavey CA Cargo Raw). No composite guitar comes close to the beauty of a well made wooden instrument, but for me the robustness to heat and being able to leave the guitar in my car trunk, trumps the ugly. To my eye, the exposed graphite weave of the RainSongs are the hardest to take visually. That said my main instrument is a RainSong. I am pretty careful with my guitars and my house is humidified, so the mechanical robustness and humidification independence are nice but not important. Let me get some real controversy going because I've owned or tried most of the composite guitars made (in indefensible rank order, I've never seen a Blackbird in-person):

Most Wooden Guitar Like Tone:
1. Well Made Wooden 2. CA 3. RainSong 4. Emerald
Loudest:
1. RainSong/Emerald 2. Well Made Wooden 3. CA
Build Quality (all are acceptably good):
1. Well Made Wooden, RainSong 2. Emerald 3. CA
Light Weight:
1. Emerald/RainSong 2. Well Made Wooden 3. CA
Interior Neatness
1. Well Made Wooden 2. Emerald 3. RainSong 5. CA
Does Not Slide Off Your Leg
1. RainSong 2. Emerald 3. CA

Jon

[stoney]

The only real problem I have with my 2004 CA Legacy AE is the ebony fingerboard. I understand that CA stopped making the original composite fingerboard because it had an unacceptable "feel," but went back to composite when they got the composition worked out. So, I have one of the interim models with an ebony board. It is wonderful on the fingers but it is the only reason I have to worry about humidity!

A minor problem is that I have to spend too much time here in my neck of the woods explaining what it is. Not very many composite guitars in this area, and often people will just assume the guitar is painted. One local well-known guitar tech told me he doesn't work on "cheap imports" when I took it in for some fret work. I did not bother to enlighten him.

I no longer have my J-200 (100th Anniversary Model), Taylor 710 (circa 1995?), Taylor 314 CE, Baby, Big Baby or Gibson Gospel. The CA is my only guitar (dobro notwithstanding) and every time I visit my favorite music store to play with the instruments (Taylor, Martin and others) I come home happy to have my pre-Peavy CA.

While it is true that I often am tempted by the beauty of nice wood guitars because the CA is really ugly, my criteria are only tone and how the instrument fits my needs.

I guess I'm easy to please...

Stoney

[AZLiberty]

Another potential bennifit is that a composite instrument can be made completely without animal or plant products.

Thus if you travel across international borders you don't have to worry about CITES and the Lacy Act nearly as much as folks with wooden instruments.

Mine wouldn't be Lacy Act immune (abalone rosette) but a Rainsong Hybrid or Studio would.

[short bald guy]

Sorry for the delay, but I have been trying to "validate my account" for quite some time. Anyway, I sent an email to the administrator and they, he, she fixed it.....Thanks to whoever.

The minus of the carbon fiber (have a Rainsong Dread) is that it is not wood. Believe it or not, this is an issue with folks. And this is not a good/bad issue. If you only like wood guitars then look at wood only. Wood is beautiful. Even some of us players that make the claim that it is only about the sound don't care to consider carbon fiber for that reason. For this much money, a guitar should be what you want it to be. If you can get beyond that, then the carbon fiber instrument is one that you should consider.

The plus side? Well, the sound. The first hour or so I played mine I was thinking that perhaps I should return it. After that I noticed that it was not harsh OR bright (to me), it was simply full. All the sound is there. To me it sounds balanced. Extremely so, in fact. Then I thought that I would change the strings (elixir 12's), but was advised to play a few more hours and the strings would begin to sound better. And they do.
People that are not looking for guitars (shopping?) REALLY notice this guitar. So at least some folks think the carbon look is nice.
Never need a truss rod adjustment (on my model). This is like not needing a clutch pedal in a vehicle with an automatic transmission.
Leave it on the stand. Temperature is not an issue. Nor humidity.
Play it outside. Regardless.
And there is more.....
Are they better? No, I do not think so. But I believe that the carbon fiber that I have played sound easily as good as wood ones.