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  #46  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post
Oh, and who said that an acoustic guitar has to sound like wood to sound like an acoustic guitar? Traditional acoustic guitar, yes; acoustic guitar, no.
Correct. As most here know I sold more CA's, and according to Ashvin sell more Rainsongs than any other independent dealer so I think I know what sells carbon fiber guitars, and it's not the ability to sound like wood. In fact my personal Rainsong CO-WS1000N2 plays and sounds better than 90% of the wood guitars available to us. The key is to keep an open mind.
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:53 AM
rolleiguy54 rolleiguy54 is offline
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I owned a CA cargo and now own a Rainsong OM. They are both great.
My OM sounds loud and proud.
For those who don't likemthem well someof us don't care for Taylors.

Viva la difference.

I remember the same comments from bicyclists on carbon framed bikes.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:53 AM
mchalebk mchalebk is offline
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Originally Posted by wooglins View Post
It bugs me when quotes are taken out of context. (I have been guilty of the same in the past, but now try very hard not to do this as it is not fair to the OP). I never said a carbon fiber guitar could not be acoustic, I said if it sounded different than an acoustic guitar. I specifically said it may not be possible to get Carbon fiber to vibrate in a way that is similar to wood
I don’t believe I took anything you said out of context. You made the following statement:

“Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar.”

There are two conclusions that can be clearly drawn from this statement:

1. You don’t believe it’s been proven that carbon fiber guitars can be made to sound like wooden guitars.
2. You think a guitar must sound like a traditional wooden guitar in order to sound like an “acoustic guitar”. This could be taken further to mean that a guitar that doesn’t sound like a traditional wood guitar is not actually an acoustic guitar.

I took that statement at face value and did my best to rebut it. I did not take anything out of context. I chose not to address the vibration part of your post because I’m just not that familiar with the physics involved. However, I felt the statement that I did quote was strongly worded enough to stand on its own and I feel I addressed it fairly. I apologize if you think I twisted the meaning of your post; it was certainly not my intention.

By the way, if you want to hear a composite guitar that sounds like wood, check out one of the CA Legacy models (I know they’re not being produced at this point, but older versions are out there). In particular, I would suggest the vintage voiced model. When they went to some of the other designs (GX, X, Cargo, etc.), I think the guitars started moving a little bit away from the “make composite guitar sound like wood” philosophy that seemed to be the original goal. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just that I don’t think they were as concerned with making them sound as wood-like as possible.

I really hope that Peavey brings the Legacy models back to market as quickly as possible. More than any other model of carbon fiber guitar, it’s the Legacy that can most win over someone who thinks a guitar must sound like a traditional wooden guitar or it’s not a real acoustic guitar.
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  #49  
Old 01-21-2011, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post
I don’t believe I took anything you said out of context. You made the following statement:

“Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar.”

There are two conclusions that can be clearly drawn from this statement:

1. You don’t believe it’s been proven that carbon fiber guitars can be made to sound like wooden guitars.
2. You think a guitar must sound like a traditional wooden guitar in order to sound like an “acoustic guitar”. This could be taken further to mean that a guitar that doesn’t sound like a traditional wood guitar is not actually an acoustic guitar.

I took that statement at face value and did my best to rebut it. I did not take anything out of context. I chose not to address the vibration part of your post because I’m just not that familiar with the physics involved. However, I felt the statement that I did quote was strongly worded enough to stand on its own and I feel I addressed it fairly. I apologize if you think I twisted the meaning of your post; it was certainly not my intention.

By the way, if you want to hear a composite guitar that sounds like wood, check out one of the CA Legacy models (I know they’re not being produced at this point, but older versions are out there). In particular, I would suggest the vintage voiced model. When they went to some of the other designs (GX, X, Cargo, etc.), I think the guitars started moving a little bit away from the “make composite guitar sound like wood” philosophy that seemed to be the original goal. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just that I don’t think they were as concerned with making them sound as wood-like as possible.

I really hope that Peavey brings the Legacy models back to market as quickly as possible. More than any other model of carbon fiber guitar, it’s the Legacy that can most win over someone who thinks a guitar must sound like a traditional wooden guitar or it’s not a real acoustic guitar.
Ditto, and as per my initial reply.
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  #50  
Old 01-21-2011, 12:18 PM
wooglins wooglins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post
I don’t believe I took anything you said out of context. You made the following statement:

“Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar.”

There are two conclusions that can be clearly drawn from this statement:

1. You don’t believe it’s been proven that carbon fiber guitars can be made to sound like wooden guitars.
2. You think a guitar must sound like a traditional wooden guitar in order to sound like an “acoustic guitar”. This could be taken further to mean that a guitar that doesn’t sound like a traditional wood guitar is not actually an acoustic guitar.

I took that statement at face value and did my best to rebut it. I did not take anything out of context. I chose not to address the vibration part of your post because I’m just not that familiar with the physics involved. However, I felt the statement that I did quote was strongly worded enough to stand on its own and I feel I addressed it fairly. I apologize if you think I twisted the meaning of your post; it was certainly not my intention.

By the way, if you want to hear a composite guitar that sounds like wood, check out one of the CA Legacy models (I know they’re not being produced at this point, but older versions are out there). In particular, I would suggest the vintage voiced model. When they went to some of the other designs (GX, X, Cargo, etc.), I think the guitars started moving a little bit away from the “make composite guitar sound like wood” philosophy that seemed to be the original goal. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just that I don’t think they were as concerned with making them sound as wood-like as possible.

I really hope that Peavey brings the Legacy models back to market as quickly as possible. More than any other model of carbon fiber guitar, it’s the Legacy that can most win over someone who thinks a guitar must sound like a traditional wooden guitar or it’s not a real acoustic guitar.
No worries. I did not think it was a personal attack, but I did feel like the last line of my post covered the whole CF can't sound like an acoustic guitar. It may be able to. Perhaps I did not word my post as concisely as I could have. My point was that many people including myself that have tried a CF guitar find them to have a different sound than a guitar made from solid wood.

CF is a stiff material that is also very strong. I have worked with it by hand making parts that allow R/C planes to do things they could not have done in the past. Nearly ten years ago I was making the stuff basically from scratch using carbon fabric and various epoxies to construct parts that could withstand tremendous force while remaining stiff and lightweight. This allowed very lightweight electric planes to go 120 mph do a 90 degree dive from level then pull up at 180 degrees. You can imagine what happened pre-CF. These planes weighted less than 16 ounces. High quality R/C helicopter blades are made from CF for this very reason. Because they need to resist vibration, have great tensile strength, and retain their shape and also be lightweight. The new Boeing Dreamliner is made extensively with CF for similar reasons. Fighter jets, high performance sports cars, and many other items use CF for similar reasons.

It is absolutely amazing that anyone has been able to build an acoustic guitar from the stuff that sounded any better than a laminate or metal guitar. But they have and it is an amazing accomplishment. The tone is still not my cup of tea acoustically, but I like it plugged in.
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  #51  
Old 01-21-2011, 12:25 PM
leeasam leeasam is offline
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I know back in jan of 08 I had posted a clip of an 05 Taylor 814ce and an 07 CA GX performer. same mic-- same recorder- same room. posted strumming and a flat picking. did not tell which guitar was which. More people guessed wrong than right. So they could come really close in a blind test.
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  #52  
Old 01-21-2011, 12:45 PM
mchalebk mchalebk is offline
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Originally Posted by wooglins View Post
My point was that many people including myself that have tried a CF guitar find them to have a different sound than a guitar made from solid wood.
I’m sure this is true. In actuality, most CF guitars do not sound like wood guitars. I think CA is the only CF guitar manufacturer who has even tried.

One of the problems when trying out a composite guitar in person is that it’s pretty much impossible to treat it like you would a traditional wood guitar. With wooden guitars, one might be thinking about the wood combination or the construction in addition to the sound and playability, but the viability of the materials themselves is not in question. When a person tries a carbon fiber guitar out, they usually spend a lot of time trying to determine if it’s as good as regular guitars, instead of simply judging it on its merits.

That’s why I made the following comment about “in a blind test…” If you heard someone playing my Vintage Performer (Legacy) and didn’t know it was made of composite materials, I am pretty sure you would never guess it wasn’t made of wood. I’ve owned it for over four years and am constantly impressed with how traditional the sound is. In my opinion, CA has indeed proved that you can make a composite guitar that sounds like a wood guitar. However, most CF guitars are designed to take more advantage of the characteristics of carbon fiber than a traditional design like the Legacy.
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  #53  
Old 01-21-2011, 12:48 PM
wooglins wooglins is offline
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Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post
I’m sure this is true. In actuality, most CF guitars do not sound like wood guitars. I think CA is the only CF guitar manufacturer who has even tried.

One of the problems when trying out a composite guitar in person is that it’s pretty much impossible to treat it like you would a traditional wood guitar. With wooden guitars, one might be thinking about the wood combination or the construction in addition to the sound and playability, but the viability of the materials themselves is not in question. When a person tries a carbon fiber guitar out, they usually spend a lot of time trying to determine if it’s as good as regular guitars, instead of simply judging it on its merits.

That’s why I made the following comment about “in a blind test…” If you heard someone playing my Vintage Performer (Legacy) and didn’t know it was made of composite materials, I am pretty sure you would never guess it wasn’t made of wood. I’ve owned it for over four years and am constantly impressed with how traditional the sound is. In my opinion, CA has indeed proved that you can make a composite guitar that sounds like a wood guitar. However, most CF guitars are designed to take more advantage of the characteristics of carbon fiber than a traditional design like the Legacy.
Excellent point.
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  #54  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:24 PM
wgnorman wgnorman is offline
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Regardless of all the debate, as a former CA Cargo owner, I am glad to see CA will continue - I am the first to endorse wood - solid or laminate - guitars - however, at the same time, I am also a strong advocate of carbon fiber and new technology in guitars - and I seriously hope Peavey can make a good business with the CA's - Congrats to all of us for having the opportunity to experience these fine instruments again
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  #55  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:59 PM
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Regardless of all the debate, as a former CA Cargo owner, I am glad to see CA will continue - I am the first to endorse wood - solid or laminate - guitars - however, at the same time, I am also a strong advocate of carbon fiber and new technology in guitars - and I seriously hope Peavey can make a good business with the CA's - Congrats to all of us for having the opportunity to experience these fine instruments again
No doubt. I was disappointed when CA closed up so quickly, and shocked they did not have a buyer. I do wonder why the founder of the original company is not working for Peavy. In Bob Taylors recent book he talks about the concept of being the second and third owner. He applies to the concept to failed businesses and then to problems in general. Peavy lucked out as they gained the "equity" that CA gained as the first owner, and do not have to go through the trials and tribulations they faced as the first owner of the challenge of building Carbon Fiber guitars.
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  #56  
Old 01-21-2011, 03:42 PM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
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whats the guitarists name for Blue Highway(CA had come out with a signature dread model in his name?), also the bass player for Blue Highway appears to use a carbon upright bass-wonder if CA had anything to do with that?

The most important question for me is: will Peavey introduce a truss rod for adjustment in the new CA guitars?

thanks
daryl
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  #57  
Old 01-21-2011, 04:22 PM
D. Churchland D. Churchland is offline
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whats the guitarists name for Blue Highway(CA had come out with a signature dread model in his name?),
That's Tim Stafford, very good bluegrass player
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  #58  
Old 01-21-2011, 04:39 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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I agree that CF guitar don't have to sound like wood but I was draw to CA guitar because they really tried to make them sound as close to wood as possible. When I first played one I freaked out when the traditional sound came from a carbon guitar. In the end I bought a Legacy that was painted with a tobacco burst so that it even looked like a wood guitar. When I play there are few people that know that this guitar is not wood. Personally I love that. I have played many other carbon guitars and I really am not sure I like that straight carbon sound as much as the Legacy "deceiver." At 59 it gives me my tradition and no worries when I take it out. Wonder which one is carbon? Of these the Legacy gets played the most.
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  #59  
Old 01-21-2011, 08:41 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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My CA GX meeting some other non traditional use of Carbon Fiber today here in Phoenix... They both shine.





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Last edited by kramster; 01-21-2011 at 08:50 PM.
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  #60  
Old 01-21-2011, 08:48 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Hard to beat Kramster at picture taking.
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