The World ( US ) has changed

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by xtjohn

From what I'm seeing it's pretty much universally accepted in the psychology and sociology fields that the epidemic in narcissism is fact, not just a few left fielders putting their ideas out there. Apparently there is much evidence to support the widely held view that social media is a substantial contributing factor.

Is it universally accepted ?
I would love to see the evidence of universal acceptance and the test criteria you're seeing.


Seems like first and foremost you have assume the validity of NPI test procedure .

Then:
I found this article 2014 in Psychology Today,
which even though it assumes the validity of the NPI test scores (Narcissistic Personality Inventory) and grants that the NPI scores have increased, and mentions several speculative theories as to "why" But interestingly does not include "social media " in the "speculation" of reasons why.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...oung-americans
A link to perhaps a newer study directly connecting social media, would be helpful .


And then this 2015 article which (while still assuming the test is valid ) questions the inherent assumption that this increased score in narcissism shown by the NPI test, is reflecting an entirely unhealthy increase.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...arcissism-test


And then there is this study from 2008 (when the often quoted results of the major studie that got the ball rolling on this concept of increase using the NPI ) which questions the the methodology and ???

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...8.00508.x/full

So It perhaps may not be quite as cut and dry as some would have us think.......

While arguably social media has been catalyst for some specific changes in some social behaviors, I am less convinced it really is some central factor in any kind of fundamental changes in human character or psyche. Again I would suggest that if there is such a change, the social media behavior may well be a symptom more than a cause.

For example many claim tech is making people more isolated.. Perhaps in some instances it is true , BUT for example when one rides the morning commuter train from White Plains NY down to Grand Central, the fact that most of commuters have their heads buried in their smart phones instead of newspapers and magazines, while certainly represents a significant change in medium. In fundamental behavior not so much and arguably the only possible change in behavior can said to be --- that if they are texting, they are actually being more social and less isolated than say 15 years ago when they were reading the paper.

[Mr. Jelly]

Or it could be that there is technology available today that exploits some undesirable aspects or characteristics of people.

G'day Kev,
From the little I've read the NPI is certainly not the be-all & end-all of testing and is only one of a number of procedures used in this matter.
Below is a link to an article (with references) that gives what I think is a summary of narcissism at the current time. As with any complicated subject it's easy to form ideas from limited info and digging deeper may change your previous views and I admit I have spent little time doing the reading on this subject and concur that I may be seeing a more biased view but at the moment I don't even have time to pick up my guitar for a strum so I'll have to let the reading rest there.
it's nice having these thought provoking conversations though.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by xtjohn

G'day Kev,
From the little I've read the NPI is certainly not the be-all & end-all of testing and is only one of a number of procedures used in this matter.
Below is a link to an article (with references) that gives what I think is a summary of narcissism at the current time. As with any complicated subject it's easy to form ideas from limited info and digging deeper may change your previous views and I admit I have spent little time doing the reading on this subject and concur that I may be seeing a more biased view but at the moment I don't even have time to pick up my guitar for a strum so I'll have to let the reading rest there.
it's nice having these thought provoking conversations though.

Yes I think respectful discourse serves progress. And I am sure I've expounded sufficiently on my view . However I don't see the link ?

Sorry, forgot to add it! My mind is a bit frazzled at the moment as we are at a stage of the building process where lots & lots of things have to be considered and implemented at once. Normal programming will resume when we've finished the house.
Anyway, here's the link.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-is-increasing

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by xtjohn

Sorry, forgot to add it! My mind is a bit frazzled at the moment as we are at a stage of the building process where lots & lots of things have to be considered and implemented at once. Normal programming will resume when we've finished the house.
Anyway, here's the link.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-is-increasing

Retired builder here, I understand completely... Ah yes I googled and read that one also, I'll have to give the linked references a read

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I think I said that in detail a few pages back.

This illustrates the point brilliantly.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by xtjohn

It's true, narcissism is in the western world is growing at an alarming rate.
While it's no easy task to pinpoint the causes I think a very large finger must be pointed at social media. The idea of posting every little thing one does during the course of a day erroneously creates an inflated value of self worth. Apart from being one of the drivers of the narcissistic explosion we are witnessing it is also staggeringly banal!

I have read the many posts in this thread, with interest and curiosity. I am a little skeptical about some of the things that have been asserted.

While it seems likely that narcissism is in the rise, I am not sure that it is growing at an alarming rate. I think at least some of what is being observed is a drift in the meaning of the term "narcissism", and relatledly, a drift in the meaning of the score on various measures of narcissism. This happens in all assessment devices and clinical diagnoses in psychology.

In regards to assessment: many (most?) assessment devices have been revised over the years, including major revisions to some of the most widely used assessment tools (e.g., e MMPI, the WAIS). Some of this is due to changing language use and changing attitudes; some of it is the result of advances in the the realm of test construction and validation.

In regards to diagnosis, ADD/ADHD is a good example. Our understanding of (and clinical categorization of) ADD has changed quite a bit since the 1960's, and this is reflected in the revisions of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) used by mental health professionals, and in changing attitudes towards the use of Ritalin in the treatment of ADD (there is research to suggest that Ritalin is still one of the most effective treatments when given to those who would have been diagnosed according to the original criteria; it is much less effective and its use is much more controversial when considering the much more heterogenous group that can be diagnosed within the various subgroups of the current DSM). Also, it is noteworthy that the incidence of ADD has more than doubled (originally estimated at 1-2%, now estimated to be 5% or more) over this same span...with a consequent debate about whether there is a rising rate of pathological behavior, or merely a change in diagnostic criteria and general awareness of the disorder(s).

Further, whenever I read about "alarming increases" of certain diagnoses, I recall the late 80's and early 90's when there was discussion in the field about an epidemic of multiple personality (and speculation that there were an increasing number cults that engaged in ritualistic sexual abuse). I don't know about any of the research that bears on that phenomenon...I do know that there was "quite a buzz" in the field, and then it receded without any fanfare (and as far as I am aware, without much post hoc discussion). While psychology has made MANY important contributions and has done much to address and reduce suffering, it doesn't get everything right. We should remain open to the possibility that it isn't seeing the whole picture in regards to narcissism.

Last, let's remember that Kohut's seminal observations and theories about narcissism date to the 70's and earlier (he died in the early 80's), and that the book, "Culture of Narcissism" was released in 1979. Clearly, the roots of some of what we are concerned about predates social media, and we should be at least a little skeptical about the claim that social media is responsible for a meaningful increase in a phenomenon such as narcissism, which is usually assumed to be a more deeply rooted trait...one that is more characterologic in nature. Invoking social media as a a significant causal factor seems a bit too simplistic..

[cotten]

We like simplistic. That's why slogans and memes are so popular.

cotten

[Nyghthawk]

Bumper sticker solutions to complex social problems work out so well! LOL!

[Basalt Beach]

Rich,

thank you for a very informative and learning post! My laymen's view is that narcissism has not really changed, just the technology available to widely disseminate it for individuals who want to demonstrate the behavior.

[tbeltrans]

One thing to consider, is that there have been many points along the historic timeline that folks living in various periods have been very worried because of the events of a given period.

When I first moved to the Twin Cities in 1978, I worked as an engineering tech at a hearing aid company. There were 4 of us techs at benches in a small room, and one older woman (mid 60s, I would guess) who did much of the specialized soldering. At the time, there was a very popular movie called (if I recall...) "The Terminal Generation" by Hal Lindsay. Everybody seemed to be talking about it, regardless of their religious affiliation. It was about how the "end times" were coming very soon, and it presented a movie full of "proof" with all the terrible things going on in the world.

The woman who did the specialized soldering, during one such discussion among us, brought in a post card a friend of her mother's had sent to her mother in the early 1920s, claiming the same thing, with her "proof".

Imagine what the folks in England thought during the worst of WWII, what folks thought during the worst of the Depression, what folks thought during WWI, during the Civil War, during the Black Plague, etc, etc.

It is not at all uncommon for things to look very dire to those living in a particular time.

Despite all that we might say, in the end, life goes on, chugging along a day at a time.

Tony