The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-17-2020, 01:01 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default Eastman Dreadnought with cooked finish

One of my sons has an Eastman Dreadnought that sat in a hot car for too long. The finish on the neck, sides and back (but not the top!) is damaged and rough and in some places has tiny bubbles in it. Eastman calls the finish "antique varnish," which isn't very enlightening. Any insights as to what the actual finish might be and how to deal with it?

Thanks in advance.
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-17-2020, 07:44 AM
redir redir is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 7,657
Default

Pics are necessary for a good clear response.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-17-2020, 10:35 AM
PeteD PeteD is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Holly Springs NC
Posts: 260
Default

Eastman reps are usually very good about being responsive and I'm sure if you reach out they will give you specifics and I'd bet even give you a quote on refinishing it.

Pura Vida here and on the Eastman Guitar Fans club probably knows as much as anyone about Eastman around these parts. He owns probably 8 of them right now.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2020, 10:50 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteD View Post
Eastman reps are usually very good about being responsive and I'm sure if you reach out they will give you specifics and I'd bet even give you a quote on refinishing it.

Pura Vida here and on the Eastman Guitar Fans club probably knows as much as anyone about Eastman around these parts. He owns probably 8 of them right now.
Thanks so much. Reaching out to Eastman is part of the plan, for sure. From what I'm hearing the guitar didn't sit in the hot trunk for all that long, so this is a little odd. I'll report back.
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2020, 11:15 AM
Frank Ford Frank Ford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 638
Default

"Varnish" is a term used for a large number of different formulations from the Stradavari violin days to modern polyurethanes.

The kind of heat damage you describe is not uncommon on instruments finished with the vintage recipe varnishes, which can be very sensitive to heat.

Repairing the finish can be tricky, although sometimes "block sanding" followed by buffing or polishing will improve the appearance.

Over-coating the finish with a French polished shellac can be an effective technique as well.

Stripping and refinishing is likely to be expensive.
__________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

Last edited by Frank Ford; 08-17-2020 at 11:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2020, 01:39 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,082
Default

A simple approach is to smooth the finish with 0000 steel wool and live with the 'antiqued' look.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-18-2020, 10:46 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default

An update -- I emailed Eastman yesterday and there was a response in my inbox this morning. More updates to follow...
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-19-2020, 10:09 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default

Latest update. Their response was pretty much "heat will damage varnish." I'm still waiting on the question of why the top was undamaged while the finish on the rest of the guitar wasn't. But the takeaway for now is that if you anticipate anything close to a heat issue, don't buy an Eastman with an Antique Varnish finish.
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-19-2020, 11:16 AM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,082
Default

In the case, the top does not touch the lining, with the possible exception of the tail block. The finish on the top is often thinner than the rest of the guitar, which may explain the lack of damage. Pore filler, which is not used on spruce soundboards, may have contributed to the bubbling.
The most heat resistant finish is probably catalyzed polyester. But it is not the best for sound, especially when thickly applied.

Last edited by John Arnold; 08-19-2020 at 11:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-19-2020, 11:22 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
In the case, the top does not touch the lining, with the possible exception of the tail block. Case imprint is common with softer finishes, particularly when they are new.
Heat is used to disassemble guitars. The most heat resistant finish is probably catalyzed polyester. But it is not the best for sound, particularly when thickly applied.
Interesting and good to know, thanks. In this case (no pun intended) the guitar's probably three years old, and the worst damage is on the heel of the neck, which doesn't touch anything.
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-19-2020, 05:23 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,795
Default

I'd suspect that "heat" great enough to buckle the outer finish might be the least of your worries. Be prepared to address popped bracing, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-19-2020, 05:59 PM
LeDave LeDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 893
Default

How long was it baking for?
__________________
Martin D-13E (2021 MiM)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-19-2020, 06:07 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeDave View Post
How long was it baking for?
Four hours, give or take.
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-19-2020, 06:09 PM
LeDave LeDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Four hours, give or take.
Wow. Guitars are far more fragile than I thought. Thanks. I'm babying mine already and this will make it like my only child. Which it already is my only guitar, lol.
__________________
Martin D-13E (2021 MiM)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-19-2020, 09:16 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeDave View Post
Wow. Guitars are far more fragile than I thought. Thanks. I'm babying mine already and this will make it like my only child. Which it already is my only guitar, lol.
I've put guitars through worse many times with no issues, and in this weather there are probably thousands of them roasting in FedEx Ground and UPS trucks for days at a time. It just seems to be a quirk of this "antique varnish" finish, and even then the top was completely unscathed.

Mainly at this point this is a PSA saying "don't buy one of these."
__________________
Originals

Couch Standards
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=