Asymmetrical waist

rick-slo · #1 10-29-2018, 06:11 PM

Just randomly grabbed the picture below off the internet for my question.

Has anyone made or played a guitar shaped with the waist lower down on the treble side than on the base side? That could make the guitar sit in a better position on the right leg (or not). The non traditional Picasso like shape probably would have a hard sell but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented in this area.

mirwa · #2 10-29-2018, 06:14 PM

When I see an asymmetrical waist, I just make an assumption that someone freehand made the guitar rather than used a mold.

I personally have never made one like that, I find the look to be off putting.

Steve

ChalkLitIScream · #3 10-29-2018, 06:23 PM

I had an eastman 822ce-ff which had an asymmetrical shape like the one you described. IT certainly helped with comfort. The 16'' lower bout was not as much of a problem as it would be on a dread, but of course dreads have a thicker waist too.

its a nice design though, dont have to compromise the volume of the instrument for comfort.

D. Churchland · #4 10-29-2018, 08:31 PM

I have played a few. I never noticed much difference honestly. Sort of like what fan frets are for me, the less I think about it the less I notice of it. Ymmv

Bruce Sexauer · #5 10-29-2018, 08:44 PM

About 1/3 of my guitars are intentionally asymmetrical.

printer2 · #6 10-29-2018, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

About 1/3 of my guitars are intentionally asymmetrical.

I bet if you tilted the camera a little bit you could make it less noticeable.

LouieAtienza · #7 10-29-2018, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

About 1/3 of my guitars are intentionally asymmetrical.

Bruce, a while back I made a half-joke about the assymetrical body possibly preventing standing waves from forming in the sound box... I'm not certain of the sonic benefits but I'd bet there is some truth to it. I know that Danny Ferrington did quite a bit of work with asymmetrical sound boxes in the 80s, with that same theory behind the designs....

rick-slo · #8 10-30-2018, 12:25 AM

My question was about building a guitar with an asymmetrical waist location - specifically the narrowest portion of the waist curve on the treble side of the guitar being further
down the side (towards the end of the guitar) than on the base side. Never seen that. Probably would look weird but might have some ergonomic advantages.

For example I marked with black marks where the narrowest portion of the waist could be in the picture below:

LouieAtienza · #9 10-30-2018, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

My question was about building a guitar with an asymmetrical waist location - specifically the narrowest portion of the waist curve on the treble side of the guitar being further
down the side (towards the end of the guitar) than on the base side. Never seen that. Probably would look weird but might have some ergonomic advantages.

For example I marked with black marks where the narrowest portion of the waist could be in the picture below:

Well, I (as well as a few others) play with the waist on my LEFT leg. Michael Chapdelaine, when seated, plays with the lower bout resting on his right leg with the guitar tilted up in a modern "flamenco" style. And many perform mostly standing up. So as a pure ergonomic feature, it seems to me great for a good percentage of players, bad for some, and irrelevant for the rest. If you're an established builder this feature might not matter in terms of sellability, if you're a new builder, it just might because you've alienated a big chunkof potential buyers.

redir · #10 10-30-2018, 06:58 AM

Is that guitar pictured asymmetrical? Because I'm not seeing it. Though the bridge does look a little funny.

Anyway I've never played one like that nor built one that way. You might be able to get a regular guitar and build an insert for it that would model the offset just to see if you like it. A custom builder might take on such a project but if it were me there would be a no return policy as that would be impossible to sell.

KarenB · #11 10-30-2018, 07:00 AM

I'd like to see a custom guitar where the upper waist of an OM guitar is comfortable for women ('nuff said).

Bruce Sexauer · #12 10-30-2018, 09:50 AM

Most comments I have heard indicate that moving the guitar to the right is preferred. 12 fret guitars are more “natural” for this reason. It puts the left arm closer to the nut and more in line with the playing area of the fingerboard, the “money end”. On my JB-15 the waist is moved 5/16” toward the Nut on the treble side as compared to the standard OM it is based on. Also, the neck is moved to the right as it is a 13 fretter instead of the OM’s 14 frets to the body.

Additionally, moving the waist “south’ causes the distance between the bridge and the side to be less, which stiffens top relevantly, IMO, exactly the opposite of why I like to make MultiScale guitars asymmetrical.

LouieAtienza · #13 10-30-2018, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Most comments I have heard indicate that moving the guitar to the right is preferred. 12 fret guitars are more “natural” for this reason. It puts the left arm closer to the nut and more in line with the playing area of the fingerboard, the “money end”. On my JB-15 the waist is moved 5/16” toward the Nut on the treble side as compared to the standard OM it is based on. Also, the neck is moved to the right as it is a 13 fretter instead of the OM’s 14 frets to the body.

Additionally, moving the waist “south’ causes the distance between the bridge and the side to be less, which stiffens top relevantly, IMO, exactly the opposite of why I like to make MultiScale guitars asymmetrical.

Bruce, do you find that differs with playing style? For example, a bluegrass player that plays predominantly standing up, versus maybe a fingerstylist that usually plays sitting down? Being vertically challenged they all seem like I'm a child playing grown-up guitars, but I do prefer the feel of a 12-fretter on my lap.

printer2 · #14 10-30-2018, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenB

I'd like to see a custom guitar where the upper waist of an OM guitar is comfortable for women ('nuff said).

I just made up a small body where I was trying to accommodate my own sensitivity rather than thinking of comfort for a woman. I was trying to get away from doing a standard belly bevel and used a wedge as well as bent the top at the arm contact point. I tried to only wedge the left side, actually kind of difficult. I was not concerned about the sonic attributes but more the ergonomic aspects of the project.

I could see it being rather difficult shaping the waist to make all women happy as one sized does not fit all. The simplest construction wise would be to do a normal Manzer wedge.

MC5C · #15 10-30-2018, 12:57 PM

I make asymmetric guitars with the treble waist closer to the heel than the bass side waist. I also offset the neck joint to create a cutaway, and the entire lower bout is also offset. I call it my "Moderne" model. I've done two like this. OK, I forgot how to post photos. sorry, this might have worked, but it's not a great photo in any case.