Question about transposing chords

[Thrillhouse]

There's a song in E that I want to play in G. The chords in E are "E, A, B, C#m". I've transposed other stuff without an issue but the C#m is making me scratch my head. I would think that in G the C#m would become E#m but since there is no E# that would make it an Fm. But a chart I found said that instead the C#m should transpose to an Em. Why does it lose the sharp when transposed from E to G?

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Thrillhouse

There's a song in E that I want to play in G. The chords in E are "E, A, B, C#m". I've transposed other stuff without an issue but the C#m is making me scratch my head. I would think that in G the C#m would become E#m but since there is no E# that would make it an Fm. But a chart I found said that instead the C#m should transpose to an Em. Why does it lose the sharp when transposed from E to G?

Transposing is changing key. E, A, B, C#m are the I, IV, V, and vi chord in E.

In the key of G, the same chords would be G, C, D, and Em.

You've got to look at the scale. Just because something's "sharp" doesn't mean it will stay "sharp." That's irrelevant.

Here, look at the major scales:

E major: E F# G# A B C# D#

G major: G A B C D E F#

Each note of the scale can be harmonized as a chord. The pattern is always the same for every major scale.

First chord is major, second and third are minor, fourth is major, fifth is dominant, sixth is minor, and seventh is diminished (if a three note chord, half diminished if harmonized to four notes...don't worry about that now, let's get this other stuff straight)

That's how to look at harmonization and transposition from the standpoint of major scale harmony.

You could also just use the cycle of fourths/fifths. Count how many spaces you move for the first chord, apply that to the rest. Quality (major, minor, 7th, whatever) stays the same.

"Sharp" is not a quality when talking about the root. The root of that chord in your first example is a C#. This is different than seeing a chord like E7#9. There, the # applies to the ninth. If that doesn't make sense yet, just focus on the first part--my guess is those extended chords aren't popping up too much in the music you're playing right now anyway.

[stanron]

Here's another way of looking this.

Scale of G is G A B C D E F# G
Scale of E is E F# G# A B C# D# E

or

chords in G G Am Bm C D Em F#dim G
chords in E E F#m G#m A B C#m D#dim E

If you check the intervals (in semitones or frets) between B and C# and between D and E you'll see they are the same. D to E# or F would be one fret or semitone more. Follow the intervals rather than the sharps or flats.

[Thrillhouse]

Totally makes sense now and I see how I was looking at it wrong before. Thanks a bunch guys!

[ocarolan]

Originally Posted by Thrillhouse

There's a song in E that I want to play in G. The chords in E are "E, A, B, C#m". I've transposed other stuff without an issue but the C#m is making me scratch my head. I would think that in G the C#m would become E#m but since there is no E# that would make it an Fm. But a chart I found said that instead the C#m should transpose to an Em. Why does it lose the sharp when transposed from E to G?

If you know the notes on eg your top string and can count frets, you can transpose. Whilst a lot of the theory quoted above is very useful, you don't have to know it to transpose quickly, easily, and accurately.

In your example, you have chords for something in E, and want to know chords for it in G. Find an E note - top E string open. Count how many frets to the nearest G note- it's three frets up. ie E chord becomes G chord in the transposed version, which is what you wanted.

Obvious, yes, but the same thing can now be done with all the other chords, ie move A, B and C# notes up three frets and you find you have C, D and E. So you need C, D and Em chords in your trasnsposed version.

Doing it this way means anyone with no knowledge of what notes are in a particular scale can quickly transpose. Just take the name note of the key, ignore anything after the first letter, count frets to the name note of the key you wish to use, restore the bits after the first letter where necessary.

Hope that helps.
keith

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Thrillhouse

There's a song in E that I want to play in G. The chords in E are "E, A, B, C#m". I've transposed other stuff without an issue but the C#m is making me scratch my head. I would think that in G the C#m would become E#m but since there is no E# that would make it an Fm. But a chart I found said that instead the C#m should transpose to an Em. Why does it lose the sharp when transposed from E to G?

Hi Th…

Easy answer - Key of E has 4#s and key of G only 1#

Here's a link to a transpose chart for future use if you care to download and use it (I developed it for students).

CLiCK

Right click on the word CLiCK above and save it to your hard drive. I didn't cover all 12 keys (no C# or F#). It lists the naturally occurring triad-chords in each key, the relative minor chords, and how many sharps/flats in various keys.

You could always capo at third fret and still play it in E.

Hope this helps...

[Thrillhouse]

Thanks.

lg - What are those little circles next to all the vii chords for?

[mr. beaumont]

Diminished chord.

Circle with a slash is half diminished, also known as a m7b5.

The seventh chord in any major key is a diminished triad if harmonized to three notes (Root, b3, b5) and is a half-diminished if harmonized to 4 notes (Root, b3, b5, b7) It's an extremely useful chord in jazz and pop styles, it's not very common in folk and rock (the beatles liked it, though)

The fully diminished chord or diminished seventh chord (the chord most folks refer to as "diminished"--Root, b3, b5, bb6) is not derived from the diatonic harmony in any major key and is usually used as a sub for a dominant chord...that's probably more than you wanted to hear right now though, right?

[DJ in FL]

Here is a helpful site...

"www.transposechords.com"