Length of warranty for small shop builders

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by SteveS

How long should the warranty be from a small shop custom builder. Most guys offer a warranty for as long as the builder is still working as such. ....

Do you consider the warranty when purchasing or commissioning an instrument?
If someone offers a 5 year warranty do you think that is good enough?
Would you expect a guitar with a 5 year warranty is not as well built as a guitar with a lifetime warranty?
Should it depend on the price of the instruments? (I would expect a $20K instrument to have a better warranty than a $2K instrument.)
What else are you thinking about?
What do you think and why?

I consider the warranty, but it is only 1 factor I consider, and it has limited worth. If it's a single luthier shop it is typically limited to the time that person is still in business. It's a guess as to how long that might be; an experienced builder may be closer to retirement but a younger luthier may not stay in the business. A part time luthier may be spread thin into a number of activities and warranty work may not get handled in a timely manner. I feel the warranty, and how the rationale for its limitations are presented, are at the discretion of the builder. They need to choose if it's going to be consistent with current trends or if it differs. In the luthier selection process, the warranty may add or subtract from my comfort level in that individual. Even though most individual luthiers seem very generous in their warranty work, I feel the worth of the warranty is much more of a risk as compared to a larger manufacturer.

In the past I bought a Goodall that had a 5 year warranty. I wasn't overly pleased with that, but I bought it anyway.

I had a Martin for 18 years. It needed a neck reset after 1 year, and again after 17 years. The warranty covered both. In this case I did feel that particular guitar was not designed/constructed appropriately.

As for my handbuilt, I hope I never need warranty work, and if it does I hope the luthier is still in the business. But I do want to say that the luthier is very well intentioned, and has been very gracious in offering to do some setup and cosmetic work for me, even though that is well outside of the warranty.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I used to say it on my label; "I will stand behind this guitar while I still live". Which really just means I am willing to play it, and that infers that it must be playable, and that if it is not I will make it so. I do not limit this to the original owner.

I do not hesitate to keep the frets/nut/saddle in good playing condition and I do not charge for this. I do charge to put in new frets or to set it right if someone else has messed with my set-up. If the guitar has developed geometry issue (needs a neck set, for instance) through no fault of the owner I am good for that. If the owner has abused the instrument and is properly humble I will fix it up to the level of playability but w/o regard for aesthetics, fees sometimes come into play here, but not always. All warrantees specific or implied end with my death.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I used to say it on my label; "I will stand behind this guitar while I still live". Which really just means I am willing to play it, and that infers that it must be playable, and that if it is not I will make it so. I do not limit this to the original owner.

I do not hesitate to keep the frets/nut/saddle in good playing condition and I do not charge for this. I do charge to put in new frets or to set it right if someone else has messed with my set-up. If the guitar has developed geometry issue (needs a neck set, for instance) through no fault of the owner I am good for that. If the owner has abused the instrument and is properly humble I will fix it up to the level of playability but w/o regard for aesthetics, fees sometimes come into play here, but not always. All warrantees specific or implied end with my death.

Now that's what I call a warranty!
LC

[K III]

Originally Posted by El Conquistador

Now that's what I call a warranty!
LC

That's what I call pride. I like it.

I think that the warranty is actually more worth with lower priced instruments, because a neck reset is 600 bucks with shipping, and that (in relation) matters much more on a 1,500 $ Taylor than on a 15,000 $ Olson.

[Brackett Instruments]

Here's my warranty, from my website.

Warranty
I offer a limited lifetime Warranty on every guitar I build against defects in materials and workmanship. It's limited to my working lifetime. As long as I'm mentally and physically able I'll repair it. As of 2009 I'm 45 years old and healthy. This warranty isn't limited to the original owner, as long as the guitar wasn't stolen. Normal wear and abuse isn't covered. Any non warranty repairs will be made at as good of a price as possible. Third party products, such as tuning machines, pickups ect, are covered by whatever warranty their manufacturer offers........................................

I believe anyone who gives me the privilege of making a guitar for them deserves a good warranty. I also don't want my Grandkids to be responsible for warranty repairs after I'm gone.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I don't see any functional difference between my support and Woody's, just stylistic difference. It's the normal expectation in my opinion. By reasonable people for reasonable people. I don't know about Woody, but I didn't talk to a lawyer.

[Brackett Instruments]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I don't see any functional difference between my support and Woody's, just stylistic difference. It's the normal expectation in my opinion. By reasonable people for reasonable people. I don't know about Woody, but I didn't talk to a lawyer.

I didn't talk to a lawyer either. As long as the "resonable" part remains I don't think a lawyer is necessary.

[cpabolting]

Originally Posted by cpabolting

I would like to think that if any of our friendly luthiers here on AGF built a guitar for someone and there was some manufacturing defect or a failure or sorts, I would be willing to bet that if they determined it was not due to owner neglect and was in fact a failure in the guitar that was used as intended, that they would not step up and take care of it regardless if within 5 years or not.

Bruce and Woddy basically verified that! All you guys are solid!

[Kent Chasson]

I don't recall ever being asked about my warrantee. I take that as a sign that most people don't give it a lot of consideration. In fact, I don't have it posted anywhere so a buyer wouldn't even see it until they get the guitar and the paperwork.

Bruce said "I do not hesitate to keep the frets/nut/saddle in good playing condition and I do not charge for this."

That's been my unwritten policy too. I like to see my guitars again and get a sense of how they are opening up and aging. It's worth 30 minutes of setup work and it sure makes people happy.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Kent Chasson

I like to see my guitars again and get a sense of how they are opening up and aging. It's worth 30 minutes of setup work and it sure makes people happy.

I think this is a really good point. I have often thought how sad it is that the creators of these wonderful works of art get to spend so little time with them.

I was lucky enough to purchase a guitar that Mike Baranik had made especially for the '05 HGF, and had finished it just prior to the show. The first time I took it to him for a tune up, I watched his eyes light up as he opened the case. I told him, "Yes Mike, you build beautiful guitars."

I would guess it is very well worth the 30 minutes of set up work.

LC

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by tkuane

A lifetime warranty to the original owner as opposed to all future owners. In other words, a limited lifetime warranty. You misunderstood or misread me.

Not at all. Explicitly, I am discussing the possibility that I outlive the luthier of my guitar(s). If I buy a guitar from a builder and get a lifetime warranty - limited or other - it is certainly not going to extend beyond the lifetime of the builder.

Or do you have some other tricks that you aren't sharing?

[Tim McKnight]

We offer a lifetime warranty *** PLUS 2 YEARS *** on our guitars as long as I am physically able to work on them. If I become unable to work on them or I pass on my guitars are still covered for 2 additional years. We have an insurance policy of sorts that covers them.

[SteveS]

Thank you all for your input. I have no problem keeping with the current lifetime warranty. Like others have said, it is a treat to get a guitar back and see how it is holding up. I have replaced a couple of tops and a couple of necks and even did a refinish on an earlier water based finish - now it is cat poly. It was fun to learn how to do it and more importantly, I learned what I did wrong.
If you are building to sell, you should be confident enough to warranty your work appropriately. That being said, most guitars change hands and have no warranty coverage. Personally, I can't imagine having a guitar out there that had an issue that was my fault and not taking care of it just because it happens to be with a new owner. I suspect the vast majority of builders feel the same way.

[Brent Hutto]

I'm trying to stay away from forums to catch up on some other matters but wanted to offer one additional perspective on this topic...

Steve,

I think yours and some of the other comments illustrate a difference in reason for offering warranties between mass-market manufacturers and small one-man shops. When companies like Martin, Taylor, et. al. offer a "limited lifetime warranty" to the original owner and so forth they are doing it because all of the other manufacturers do it. Limiting it to the original owner is a way to minimize their exposure to actual claims while still getting "warranty" checked off the initial owners shopping list when comparing brands.

Perhaps a one-man shop is more concerned with the future and reputation of his guitars and less so about not looking bad relative to other builders w.r.t warranty. So they aren't looking for an "out" to get them off the future hook as soon as that guitar is passed to a second or subsequent owner. If there's a problem, they want the problem fixed because it is their instrument.

Or at least that's how it sounds to me.

[WhistlingFish]

Originally Posted by SteveS

I have replaced a couple of tops and a couple of necks and even did a refinish on an earlier water based finish - now it is cat poly. It was fun to learn how to do it and more importantly, I learned what I did wrong.
If you are building to sell, you should be confident enough to warranty your work appropriately.

Steve, with respect, if I had the faintest suspicion that my guitars were going to need that level of warranty work I'd be devoting some serious time to a few more practice instruments before I accepted money for them. I'm assuming, of course, that you sold these guitars.

Regardless of the fact that you were true to your word and honoured your warranty, I don't believe that it's good advertising for an emerging builder when they sell instruments subsequently needing such serious repair work. No disrespect intended.

When I eventually reach the point at which I'm ready to sell my guitars, I'll be happy to offer a limited lifetime warranty, confident that in all likelihood I'll never see the guitar again. In the meantime, I'm giving my guitars away to musician friends with instructions to play them hard and play them often. A year or two from now I'll have a better idea of where I'm at, and whether I'm ready to approach lutherie as a commercial enterprise.

Cheers
Pete
http://woodwithstrings.blogspot.com