If I'm gonna pick one, 5-string resonator banjo or a square-neck dobro?

[jr81212]

I'd go with 5 string too. I have both Mandolin and Dobro and while Mandolin came fairly easy, quality resonator guitar playing is HARD.

[Cue Zephyr]

Originally Posted by jr81212

I'd go with 5 string too. I have both Mandolin and Dobro and while Mandolin came fairly easy, quality resonator guitar playing is HARD.

Yeah, I'm wondering how much I'll suffer because of that, if I went for the dobro first. At the moment I'm feeling more like learning that than the banjo, because I reckon it may work in more places than the banjo would. Both would be bad-*** to incorporate into anything, though.

On the other hand, in the hands of a skilled player, I bet both could well be able to find a place further out to sea, so to speak. I just may have a totally incorrect view of the versatility of either instrument.

[MissouriPicker]

I admire you wanting to play more instruments. I play a bunch of them myself. A jack-of-all-trades-and-master-of-none. Don't know how much you have to spend, but here's a suggestion: Fender Rustler Open Back for between 250-300. A Gretsch Boxcar Dobro or a Regal for around 350. Both for less that 750, PLUS, tune the dobro to Open G (GBDGBD). The banjo is also Open G (strings on 5-string--short string g, followed by d,g,b,d), so you've got the same barre chord locations, same pickup notes, etc. The squareneck is almost a self-teacher once you get familiar with the slide. The banjo is the banjo. I'm not Johnny Hartford on the banjo and I'm not Jerry Douglas on the dobro, but I can accompany most people I know and I have a blast.

[Cue Zephyr]

Originally Posted by MissouriPicker

I admire you wanting to play more instruments. I play a bunch of them myself. A jack-of-all-trades-and-master-of-none.

That's so me! I don't really mind it, I rather embrace it. I don't have too many people around that play music so I play alone a lot. I greatly enjoy recording too. Combine that with loving country music and you end up with wanting to learn all the instruments. That, and when I do get to play with somebody else, I have something somewhat exquisite to bring to the table.

The Gretsch Boxcar is right in the range that I'm willing to spend. In Germany (where I get most of my music-related stuff from - Thomann) has Recording King instruments for very different prices as opposed to the US. I'm continuously looking at this brand because I've heard great stuff on both their guitars and their banjos.
I see that in the US, the RR-60VS (square neck) costs almost as much as a Gretsch Bobtail does, while where I'd buy, would have it for less than the Boxcar.

The problem with the RR-60VS is, that I think it sounds good. And there's no better audio demos than here: http://youtu.be/_aq1zpAX2-M

Judging from that clip, it has exactly that tone that I want in a dobro, while Boxcar demos leave me wondering if that's actually the tone I have in my head.

It's a shame I can't visit them to go out and try them both, it's too far away from where I live.

About the forming of chords on a banjo or dobro, what leaves me a bit worried is that I'm able to form full chords with different fingerings, while that's pretty much impossible on a dobro.

[wcap]

I've had an urge to play dobro for many years, so I certainly understand the appeal.

I played 5-string banjo really intensively for about 30 years before getting really immersed in guitar. Earlier in the thread you described a banjo as being mostly a rhythm instrument, but a banjo can be a very versatile, expressive, melodic instrument. In fact, there is a whole style of banjo playing called melodic banjo that initially was developed for playing fiddle tunes (and other things) - melodies, note for note, with embellishment. I think melodic banjo actually has a fair bit in common with classical guitar.
(Speaking of melodic banjo... really good, sophisticated clawhammer banjo can also be very melodic, with a wonderful rhythm at the same time).

Speaking of classical, 5-string banjos can be wonderful for classical music. And personally, I think that a 5-string banjo played with finesse makes a better harpsichord than a harpsichord - very similar tonal quality, but much more expressive and with greater dynamic range.

And banjos can be used for jazz.

And, of course, there is Scruggs style, which is great fun.

Bela Fleck, my musical hero for many years, does all of the above (well, I don't know about the clawhammer). Listen to some recordings of his playing to broaden your perspectives regarding what can be done with a banjo.

It can be great fun sometimes to hotrod a 5-string banjo, playing something like Foggy Mountain Breakdown really fast. But I think the loveliest banjo sounds come from banjos played slower with a lot of finesse.

Here are some semi-random banjo links I just Googled - mostly Bela Fleck - to broaden your imagination:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sYgllgF7lc (this is one of my all time favorites.... I still intend to learn this piece someday....its sort of perfect for banjo (I got so far as finding the music for this Bach piece, but always get distracted by other things) )

Another piece that I love (this will just confuse you though since it has GREAT dobro playing too!) - I used to play this on banjo (need to re-learn at some point): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPB2YagghWg

Another favorite Bela Fleck piece (not played by Bela Fleck here though, but played very well): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6VsXGM3Qeo
This piece is an example of how beautiful a banjo played slowly and with finesse can be.

Another lovely slow piece (another personal favorite of mine) is Rain on the Water by Tony Ellis (just a sample here on this Amazon page): http://www.amazon.com/Rain-on-the-Water/dp/B00106G5NO

Another lovely classical piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZvCg...hXYfCO1g_Rsg7Q

And more links of wonderful banjo playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4m5s...hXYfCO1g_Rsg7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zqSN...hXYfCO1g_Rsg7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKylUfV7mWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawOD...hXYfCO1g_Rsg7Q


OK, I'll stop. Finding these links has been fun!

[wcap]

OK, I hate to juxtapose my simple amateurish music with Bela Fleck's, but here are some banjo arrangements I put together to perform in a play called The Orphan Train little while back. The play was set in the early 1900's and my usual Scruggs and melodic style playing would not have fit, so I tried to reinvent my banjo sound to have a sound that would set more of an early 1900's mood. I ended up playing without picks, basically using classical guitar right hand technique (complete with good nails), and a combination of picking and strumming (downward and upward).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJGDQjnocs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE0MJWTdLQ4

And a very simple little original piece inspired by one of the scenes in the play (the scene had sort of a sad ending, hence the odd ending to the piece):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYqpAuI8QFc

I guess this is all just a longwinded way of saying that banjos are more versatile than you might think.

[wcap]

And some melodic banjo played by one of the originators of the style (and these are a few of my favorite pieces to play on banjo):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_JwyxLLpLY

And here's some other guy playing blackberry blossom (another favorite thing to play for me): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsbOtF4FNc

By the way, if this sort of thing (and/or bluegrass or clawhammer style) appeals to you, don't get lured by one of those 6-stringed instruments masquerading as a banjo! OK, a 6 string banjo could probably be a fun and useful instrument, but the smooth runs of notes you hear in this sort of melodic playing are made possible by the unique features of the 5-string banjo.

And if melodic style, and bluegrass, etc appeal to you don't get a tenor banjo.... that's basically a different instrument altogether (aside from the tonal similarity) - I think tenor banjos are often used as rhythm instruments, though I'm sure one can do lots more with them than that.

A 5 string banjo (in standard tuning) has very small intervals between strings, and past the 5th fret the first and fifth strings play the same pitches. This means there are usually 4 or 5 different places to play exactly the same note (exact same pitch - I'm not talking about octaves here) for many/most notes on a 5-string banjo, and this makes all sorts of things possible that would be pretty difficult on a guitar, or mandolin, or most other instruments.

When I play guitar I miss that ease of playing really fluidly smooth runs of notes that one has on 5-string banjo (though now when playing banjo I miss those low notes of the guitar, and the ease of playing bass lines along with a melody).

[Cue Zephyr]

Originally Posted by wcap

OK, I'll stop. Finding these links has been fun!

Believe it or not, I've heard all of your links now. You did well by starting out with that Bach piece, it's thoroughly amazing.

I admit, I have truly underestimated the banjo. And in fact, the 5-string resonator is exactly the instrument I was thinking of getting.

I'm utterly impressed with Béla's playing. It's really amazing and I couldn't even start to imagine this was even possible on a banjo. Then again, I was only really familiar with that hot-rodding like Scruggs does on FMB.

I'm seriously stuck between the two instruments now. I know I'll eventually have both, but the question now is, where do I start?

Thank you so much for the links!

To the other two posts, I'll check those out later! Thanks for replying.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by wcap

Another piece that I love (this will just confuse you though since it has GREAT dobro playing too!) - I used to play this on banjo (need to re-learn at some point): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPB2YagghWg

I think I have the solution.... get a banjo AND a dobro, and learn to play them at the same time so that you can do the above piece (Daybreak) as a one man band!




I'm glad you liked the links, by the way!

[Dan Carey]

I bought a Regal Duolian and a Regal Tricone, Sold the tricone after a couple of years because it just wasn't my style...Both were round necks.
Been wanting a banjo for years but it just hasn't been in the budget for the past four years.

My son bought me a 5 string banjo for Christmas and I couldn't be happier!

Sounds like you need to plan for both!

[Cue Zephyr]

It honestly looks as if I'm gonna have to flip a coin on this one.

Originally Posted by wcap

I'm glad you liked the links, by the way!

I'm hooked on Big Country (the last link in your post) now. It's mind-blowing!

Speaking of a one-man band, if I could do it, I'd do it. I honestly wish I could play a few instruments at the same time. The most I managed was bass with my foot, guitar with my hands and sing. Doesn't quite cut it, and it's hugely impractical, especially trying to play bass with one foot (by tapping the strings at frets).

Originally Posted by Dan Carey

Sounds like you need to plan for both!

Trust me, I am!

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr

I'm utterly impressed with Béla's playing. It's really amazing and I couldn't even start to imagine this was even possible on a banjo. Then again, I was only really familiar with that hot-rodding like Scruggs does on FMB.

Regarding "hotrodding", the word I used to refer to playing banjo fast just for the sake of playing really really fast.....

There are a lot of banjo players who do this, often taking things beyond the point of good taste and musicality. In my opinion, sometimes it just gets ugly, and stupid sounding. And I think this sort of really brash sounding playing gives banjos a bad name (banjos are an instrument that many guitar players love to hate.... or at least that they love to make jokes about...).

But Earl Scruggs was a phenomenal banjo player. Very clean, precise, and musical. When he played really fast (which he didn't always do) it sounded really good. And anyone with a 5-string banjo really NEEDS to learn to play Foggy Mountain Breakdown and Ballad of Jed Clampett!

As you can see (or perhaps I should say hear) in some of those clips I posted, a banjo played with finesse can be a lovely, nuanced thing.

And regarding Bela Fleck....

I don't have all of his records/CD's, but some of my favorites (and the sources of some of the pieces I gave you links to) are....

- Tales from an Acoustic Planet - simply lovely, wonderful music!

- Perpetual Motion - a whole CD of wonderful classical pieces all played on instruments other than what they were written for... including banjo. Simply fabulous.

- Natural Bridge - this was my first introduction to Bela Fleck's music, more than 25 years ago. I was mesmerized - this record has some of my favorites on it.

And look at the amazing list of musicians who performed on this CD.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Bridge_%28album%29

Here's another nice piece that comes from the Natural Bridge album....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4m5swrgNs0


By the way, Bela Fleck also has done electrified stuff - with the Flecktones.... personally, I love all his acoustic stuff, but I don't care much for most of the Flecktones music. OK, I guess Sinister Minister is pretty cool....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0Q4CBDFaEc

[wcap]

One more thing....

Earl Scruggs is much revered by many banjo players, and in this context, I have to repeat one of my favorite banjo jokes.....

How many banjo players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Five. One to screw in the bulb, and four to stand around and say that Earl wouldn't a done it that-a-way!


And another favorite banjo joke (which is a bit uncomfortably close to home sometimes...):

How you know know when a banjo player is at the door?

The knocking gets faster and faster, he can't find the key, and he doesn't know when to come in!



(I'll stop now)

[Cue Zephyr]

Ah, I see. I thought it was used for general fast playing, but it's for really fast playing only.

I actually think a banjo played with such finesse as demonstrated by Mr. Fleck, it almost sounds like a different instrument.

I'm indeed set to learn FMB when I do get that 5-string banjo. I'll check out the tune one you mentioned.

I get your first joke, but not so much your second one. Do I need to be a banjo player to get it?
I don't mind, but that does mean I'll have to wait in order to get it.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr

Ah, I see. I thought it was used for general fast playing, but it's for really fast playing only.

I don't know whether anyone else uses the word hotrodding this way. I personally use it in sort of a derogatory way to refer to playing banjo super fast just because you can, whether it is good music or not (sometimes it is fun to do this though!). In this regard I don't feel that Earl Scruggs was ever really a banjo hotrodder!

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr

I actually think a banjo played with such finesse as demonstrated by Mr. Fleck, it almost sounds like a different instrument.

Indeed, 5-string banjo can be a lot more things than most people imagine.

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr

I'm indeed set to learn FMB when I do get that 5-string banjo. I'll check out the tune one you mentioned.

The second song I mentioned, Ballad of Jed Clampett, was the theme song for the sitcom The Beverly Hillbillies, which was very popular in the US in the 1960's (and is still shown in reruns - it was a silly, goofy TV show, but I recall really enjoying it as a kid). Along with Foggy Mountain Breakdown (which was used in the movie Bonnie and Clyde), the Beverly Hillbillies theme song might well be the most well known of all banjo pieces for the general public. People who didn't know anything about banjos or blugrass or anything like that probably knew this song. Pretty much anyone who grew up in the 60's in the US, or who watched old TV shows as reruns, will instantly recognize this piece (and it is fun to play, especially for a child of the 60's!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwzaxUF0k18

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr

I get your first joke, but not so much your second one. Do I need to be a banjo player to get it?
I don't mind, but that does mean I'll have to wait in order to get it.

The joke (the second one) plays off of the stereotype that banjo players are not very good musicians and annoying to play music with ...... that they can't keep time and tend to speed up, they can't figure out the key a piece is being played in (after all, many banjo players play most everything in G), and when playing together with others have trouble figuring out when to jump in to the music.

(I, and my wife, will attest to the fact that I have a problem with speeding up sometimes... a common problem for amateur banjo players I fear!)

Here are more banjo jokes: http://www.flyinfiddler.com/banjokes.html

(there are collections of jokes like this for lots of other instruments too.... my wife plays trombone and has a big collection of trombone jokes, some of which are the same with just the name of the instrument changed).