Advice on acoustic pickup and pre-amp/DI

[NOLA Cajun]

I play rhythm guitar (and sing) in an acoustic ensemble (traditional Cajun music) with accordion, fiddle, and upright bass. We gig in mostly smaller venues, occasionally an outdoor stage... sometimes amped, sometimes not. When amped, I've been playing on a 1990's-era Ovation Elite (factory pickup), plugged straight into a Roland AC-60 amp. It does the job, but definitely has that piezo-electric sound "quality" (or lack thereof). When not amped, it isn't nearly loud enough to cut through the accordion and fiddle, so I typically play an old beater dread for that.

Wanting a guitar that excels in both scenarios, I recently purchased a Martin DSS-15M (all mahogany) guitar with the intention of adding a pickup. There are so many friggin' options! And in addition to choosing a pickup, you then have to understand what type of pre-amp or direct box is needed to get the best sound. I've been doing tons of reading on this forum and elsewhere, and I am kind of overwhelmed with all the information and choices. Hoping the AGF hive can help me hone in on a good choice based on the following parameters:

• I want to minimize any alterations to the guitar. Willing to have the end-pin hole drilled out to accommodate a jack if need be, but that's it.
• I am not willing to superglue anything inside the guitar. Whatever I install should be easily removable.
• I don't want a battery inside the guitar. I'd rather deal with external power/pre-amp if it's needed.
• I don't want to spend (at this stage) more than $300-$350 all-in for pickup and outboard pre-amp/DI

Obviously, I want to preserve the acoustic sound of my new Martin as much as possible when amped, and I want the pickup hardware to not alter the acoustic sound when not amped. While I would love a mic-based pickup to get the best possible acoustic quality to my sound, my opposition to having a battery in the guitar seems to preclude that.

Based on all the above, I am considering the Schatten HFN passive. My main hesitation is that in the demo/comparison videos I have seen, it seems to have a weaker low-end than comparable pickups. And for my role, I need good robust low-end sound.

I'll be grateful for any and all constructive thoughts on the above, or suggestions of any other tape-able or self-adhesive pickups (of any type) that meet my other criteria.

This forum is a wealth of knowledge. Thanks y'all.

[pieterh]

I would have suggested K&K Pure Mini but they really should be glued in onto the bridge plate.

I am sure there will be other suggestions but your budget is slightly lean for both pickup and preamp if you are after a preamp that will give decent features as well as DI signal. Having said that if the pickup gives a strong enough signal with a natural sound then you cam get away with minimal features.

You can of course get “just” a DI if you have decent eq controls in whatever you will be plugging in to (mixing desk for example). Radial do a fantastic acoustic instrument DI (Pz-DI) which has sweep low cut and fixed low pass. We use them a lot for acoustic guitars etc and they are excellent. But they aren’t cheap. I know there are some here who don’t agree with my point of view regarding DI boxes but I do believe you get what you pay for on the whole.

[NOLA Cajun]

Originally Posted by pieterh

I would have suggested K&K Pure Mini but they really should be glued in onto the bridge plate.

That is literally the only reason I have not already pulled the trigger on the K&K Pure Mini.

Originally Posted by pieterh

I am sure there will be other suggestions but your budget is slightly lean for both pickup and preamp if you are after a preamp that will give decent features as well as DI signal.

I would probably stretch to $400, maybe $450, to get the right setup.

[jklotz]

I generally don't care for soundhole pickups, but the new mojotone is really good, and it meets your requirements. One real benefit to it would be you could order from somewhere with a decent return policy, put it in (very easy to do, even with the strings still on it) and just let the cord hang out of the front. That way you could test it and see if it meets your needs. It'd take all of 30 seconds to remove it, at which point you could do the full install or return it. The full install would require drilling the end pin jack. The rest could just pop in or out any time you like.

PS - You are very lucky! You'd cry if you saw what they try to pass off as gulf shrimp up here. And don't even get me started on what they think a proper gumbo should taste like, and trust me, it ain't a proper gumbo.

[NOLA Cajun]

Originally Posted by jklotz

I generally don't care for soundhole pickups, but the new mojotone is really good, and it meets your requirements. One real benefit to it would be you could order from somewhere with a decent return policy, put it in (very easy to do, even with the strings still on it) and just let the cord hang out of the front. That way you could test it and see if it meets your needs. It'd take all of 30 seconds to remove it, at which point you could do the full install or return it. The full install would require drilling the end pin jack. The rest could just pop in or out any time you like.

PS - You are very lucky! You'd cry if you saw what they try to pass off as gulf shrimp up here. And don't even get me started on what they think a proper gumbo should taste like, and trust me, it ain't a proper gumbo.

No doubt, I am spoiled in the food department growing up and living down here. I have lived and travelled all over and rarely found anything outside of Louisiana that passes for legit gumbo. The key is to learn to make it yourself! I've shared the family recipe with many...

I assume when you mention the "new mojotone", you are referring to the Quiet Coil NC-1? https://www.mojotone.com/Quiet-Coil-...undhole-Pickup

[jklotz]

Originally Posted by NOLA Cajun

No doubt, I am spoiled in the food department growing up and living down here. I have lived and travelled all over and rarely found anything outside of Louisiana that passes for legit gumbo. The key is to learn to make it yourself! I've shared the family recipe with many...

I assume when you mention the "new mojotone", you are referring to the Quiet Coil NC-1? https://www.mojotone.com/Quiet-Coil-...undhole-Pickup

Yup, that's the one. I've got it on my Eastman E2-om. Sounds the best of the soundhole pickups that I've tried.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jklotz

Yup, that's the one. I've got it on my Eastman E2-om. Sounds the best of the soundhole pickups that I've tried.

That Mojotone pickup sounds awesome. It's the first time I have heard a demo of a soundhole pickup and actually wanted to try it. The only thing I wish more companies would do is add a mini plug on the pickup itself so that users could have the endpin jack installed, but have the option to remove the pickup from time to time.

[Br1ck]

Your list of non starters preclude most of the pickups I'd suggest. A mic will just feed back.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by NOLA Cajun

I play rhythm guitar (and sing) in an acoustic ensemble (traditional Cajun music) with accordion, fiddle, and upright bass. We gig in mostly smaller venues, occasionally an outdoor stage... sometimes amped, sometimes not. When amped, I've been playing on a 1990's-era Ovation Elite (factory pickup), plugged straight into a Roland AC-60 amp. It does the job, but definitely has that piezo-electric sound "quality" (or lack thereof). When not amped, it isn't nearly loud enough to cut through the accordion and fiddle, so I typically play an old beater dread for that.

Wanting a guitar that excels in both scenarios, I recently purchased a Martin DSS-15M (all mahogany) guitar with the intention of adding a pickup. There are so many friggin' options! And in addition to choosing a pickup, you then have to understand what type of pre-amp or direct box is needed to get the best sound. I've been doing tons of reading on this forum and elsewhere, and I am kind of overwhelmed with all the information and choices. Hoping the AGF hive can help me hone in on a good choice based on the following parameters:

• I want to minimize any alterations to the guitar. Willing to have the end-pin hole drilled out to accommodate a jack if need be, but that's it.
• I am not willing to superglue anything inside the guitar. Whatever I install should be easily removable.
• I don't want a battery inside the guitar. I'd rather deal with external power/pre-amp if it's needed.
• I don't want to spend (at this stage) more than $300-$350 all-in for pickup and outboard pre-amp/DI

Obviously, I want to preserve the acoustic sound of my new Martin as much as possible when amped, and I want the pickup hardware to not alter the acoustic sound when not amped. While I would love a mic-based pickup to get the best possible acoustic quality to my sound, my opposition to having a battery in the guitar seems to preclude that.

Based on all the above, I am considering the Schatten HFN passive. My main hesitation is that in the demo/comparison videos I have seen, it seems to have a weaker low-end than comparable pickups. And for my role, I need good robust low-end sound.

I'll be grateful for any and all constructive thoughts on the above, or suggestions of any other tape-able or self-adhesive pickups (of any type) that meet my other criteria.

This forum is a wealth of knowledge. Thanks y'all.

I'm pretty firmly entrenched with the K&K Pure Mini directly to a DI and whatever PA is being used. It can sometimes benefit by the use of a pre, but it's not always a necessity.

I'm up to maybe 8 K&K installs and I've always been happy with them, especially after having a few under saddle pickups.

I personally don't have a problem bonding a K&K in a $1500-$2000 guitar, as the guitar is a tool to make music with. A K&K can be cleanly removed from the bridge plate, so it's a reversible install. Drilling out for the end pin jack alters the instrument more than adding transducers to the bridge plate with CA gel.

If you're dead set against that, I do understand. A DSS-15M would be a good utilitarian instrument for your use, especially if you use a sound hole plug.

I've spent may years playing Cajun / Zydeco in various acoustic and electric band configurations here in the midwest (as a guitarist and/or bass player) and have done a couple of stints at Balfa Camp, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

I do my own roux, so a good gumbo is no problem for me, although it's not an easy task to find good tail meat!

In any case, good luck in pursuit of your rig and setup!

[martingitdave]

I use K&K, but if glue is out:

Schatten HFN
Trance Amulet (Requires battery or phantom power)
McIntyre Feather

There really isn't much on the market that meets your strict requirements. I would give up on the glue hesitation and profit with a K&K, Dazzo, or UltraTonic. To get the bass you need close coupling like glue.

[Doug Young]

I think your requirements pin you down significantly. People often recommend magnetic pickups for people that don't want to install pickups, but if your goal is to keep the guitar pristine, keep in mind that mags are not a fool-proof solution. If you take it in and out, you run a risk of chipping the sound hole. Leave it in, and you'll eventually have a "tan line".

Martindave's suggestions are good, but you may or may not like the sound. The Feather needs quite a lot of gain, so you'll need a good preamp, but can sound good. The Trance does come in a battery-less version, but you'd need to be able to plug into an XLR 48 volt phantom source.

Personally, I think a properly installed SBT or UST is the least invasive option, even with batteries. It may seem invasive, but a system like the Anthem can be installed and removed without a trace. Keep your original saddle and have a new one made (extra cost...) if you want to ensure you can return the guitar to absolutely original condition. There are also a (very) few passive USTs you could look into. But even K&Ks can be removed with little obvious trace.

The budget is also pretty difficult. You could do something like K&K+Red Eye for $300 or so. But most preamps are at least $200, better ones can be as much as $1000. K&Ks are cheap, but most other pickups are pricier, and many would blow your entire budget just for the pickup.

[martingitdave]

No one knows pickups better than Doug. Period.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by jklotz

I generally don't care for soundhole pickups...

This would be my usual opening line in this kind of discussion but there are some circumstances where a s/h pickup is appropriate and yours may be one. I'm not familiar with the Mojotone but I would listen closely to the opinion of someone else who is mag-resistant.

I've never heard a mag-P/U that works sufficiently well on bronze strings, despite what manufacturers claim, but nickel is fine on an acoustic, nickel bronze also works quite well.

[pcs264]

I just got the new Mojotone acoustic pickup to use with my Martin 000-28, and I'm really pleased with it. I mostly use a mic, need a pickup only occasionally, and also am unwilling to permanently install anything in the guitar (especially a UST). The Mojotone sounds very true to my guitars tone, it's very easy to balance with just moderate EQ adjustments, and is quick & easy to install and remove. Mine will stay out of the guitar except when I'm actually using it, but based on my experience so far, I'll probably use it more than I thought I would.

Addendum: FWIW, I use Martin PB strings, and have been really surprised & pleased with how accurately the Mojotone amplifies them. I have no affiliation with Mojotone other than being a satisfied customer.

[SalFromChatham]

I have two guitars with K&Ks, and play through a fire eye red eye. Great natural sound.

But even better... my old trusty D15... magnetic soundhole pickup (M1 passive) with a Baggs Avenue DI... best live sound I ever had.