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Has anyone else compared the two? I would love to get back to the original question, as I am still considering the VP.
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#32
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My thinking on this anti-feedback thing is this: We know that some acoustic guitars are less feedback prone and less boominess prone than other acoustic guitars, irregardless of the performance environment. If TD's, or the VP's, single-dial anti-feedback knob can make my iBeam-equipped D28 react more like a small guitar, then I can get more boominess-free volume when needed for picking with bare fingerpads in a loud setting. It may help to reverse the phase as well, but I won't need to roll-off the entire bass end. Conversely, when I'm strumming hard and want my D28 to sound like a D28, I'll only have to lower the volume and roll back the anti-feedback dial. Last edited by guitaniac; 05-01-2021 at 10:10 AM. |
#33
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I don't think either of these units has a separate "mains out" and "monitor out", or the TWO knobs you'd need to do this. I guess it's too late to patent the idea now. LOL. I would think places with dedicated sound engineers do this all the time, though. |
#34
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I think you overestimate the complexity of what TD does (feedback wise). What Jon or Dave describe, which might or might not be what TD does, can be easily done with a programmable board like the axoloti.
You don’t even need to know programming for that. It is a graphic language. All the IR loader of the market except the NUX optima AIR are designed with electric guitar in mind. For electric guitarist, feedback is a advantage not a problem (ask Jimi Hendrix)
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ Last edited by Cuki79; 05-02-2021 at 03:04 PM. |
#35
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In my own case, I've often gigged with just a Solo Amp for small gigs. I've used monitors and mains for the various open mics which I've hosted, but I've had to control the guitar sound from the stage since I'm the only soundman and the mixer isn't close at hand. With respect to situations where one is blessed (or cursed) with a house soundman, its still a useful thing to have the option of feeding him/her a less boomy signal. I'd rather have TD notching down the boomy resonant frequencies than have a soundman rolling off the entire bass end. |
#36
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[QUOTE=guitaniac;6705496]TD has both a DI out and a 1/4" out. I believe the VP only has the 1/4" out.[quote]
ToneDexter has a DI (XLR) out, and a 1/4" headphone out, and a 1/4" effects out/in (TRS). I assume all three outs are AFTER the ToneDexter has done its thing applying the IR. |
#37
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[QUOTE=SongwriterFan;6705501][QUOTE=guitaniac;6705496]TD has both a DI out and a 1/4" out. I believe the VP only has the 1/4" out.
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#38
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Both devices have 1/4 and XLR outs. But I think what was being suggested was different IRs for each output, which neither device does.
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#39
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Still, I think it's after the IR has been applied, too. |
#40
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But if you arrived early enough at a venue, and the soundman and you got along well, I think it would be possible: you could have the 'boominess' of a dreadnought greatly reduced for on-stage use, while letting the the mains retain a lot more of it (if it sounded good). I guess in an ideal world, you'd record some of your guitar guitar into a looper, then work with the sound guy to get the house sound like something you both liked. |
#41
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Minimum phase is a conversion of the IR to one with the same frequency response but a shorter (different) phase response. Another different phase response with the same frequency response is phase inversion. With TD you've got two additional phase responses (phase switch on the back and minimum phase cooked into the character knob) to try out to see if one of them stops the monitors impact to your guitar from being additive to your guitar's pickup. Then ToneDexter offers the standard bass control (the one that works musically for all of us) and a user configurable notch (computers are really not needed to set one of these). All-in-all, if when bypassing the IR your guitar is a feedback problem, that needs to be dealt with first before perfecting your tone. Backing off the bass in the floor monitors, or not using floor monitors, are my two favorite solutions. I think ToneDexter with the DSP built in and what seems to me to be smart programing fully understanding the IR algorithms, is pretty neat. I hope it's the winner.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#42
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If you're using the ToneDexter, but have the "Character" knob turned fully counter-clockwise (essentially the unprocessed pickup), what happens if you start turning the "Notch" knob clockwise? Will it still start taking out the "problem frequencies" (as determined in the IR-creation process)?
In other words, even if you are using very little of the "mic" sound, will the Notch knob work to reduce feedback better than the typical "notch filter" on other DIs / EQs? |
#43
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#44
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Jon,
I certainly agree that trying to imitate a miked guitar sound tends to invite feedback. It surprised me to discover that some of the DTAR Mama Bear's bigger target guitars would actually make my Rick Turner RS-6 feed back. On the plus side, the smaller Mama Bear target guitars were much less problematic with respect to feedback or excessive boominess. If the VP's, or TD's, single-knob dial can remove a big guitar's problematic resonant frequencies, it seems likely that one can get a decently balanced miked guitar sound at a noticeably higher amplification than if those problem frequencies aren't notched. I recall that it was mentioned, in one of the VP live demos, that the single-knob resonant frequency cuts target the three most troublesome resonant frequencies of the guitar being analyzed and used to create the voiceprint. I'm hoping that those three cuts will be more effective than what can be done with a single fixed depth notch. In any event, I'm looking forward to the user feedback on TD's, and the VP's, anti-feedback systems. |
#45
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Oops. My bad. It takes a real dummy to forget that something called a VoicePrint DI would have an XLR out. Thanks for the correction. I'm a big fan of the LR Baggs company and should know better.
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