Vanguard V44S dual head microphone.

lkingston · #1 08-11-2022, 08:38 AM

This time I have the make and model number right! I just got this dual head FET mic to record duo and trio performance videos. Each head is aim-able, and each head has it’s own pickup pattern selector (cardiod, figure 8, and omni). The most obvious use is to record a duo with one head facing at each player, but you could also record a trio by setting one head figure 8 and the other cardiod. That or a circle of people with two figure 8s. The FET sound should be similar to what you would expect from a tube mic.

This is the video that sold me on this mic:

https://youtu.be/PEUemUTEYV8

What an AMAZING performance!

DupleMeter · #2 08-11-2022, 09:37 AM

That was a great performance.

I wouldn't say I got any tube feel from that mic. it felt very clean with a little top end sheen. It felt a little bright on her voice for my tastes...but others may be ok with that.

From a production standpoint I felt the stereo mic was a little odd in that it put the main vocals on my left, and I really wanted them to be in the middle where they belong

But that has nothing to do with the sound of the mic...just conditioning from decades of "vocal center" mixes.

Here's another video of those 2 I found, where the V44s is just covering vocal duties: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58WR9uHGXnM

I know this is a guitar forum, but it has to be noted that she has a wonderful voice.

lkingston · #3 08-11-2022, 10:25 AM

Thanks for that. I am deaf in one ear (from doing live sound for so many years) and have my iPhone and iPad set to mono, so any stereo imaging is lost on me. I also hear nothing about 12k or so, so ditto on the high frequencies. To me it just sounds wonderful.

Thanks for posting that second link. I’d missed that.

lkingston · #4 08-11-2022, 10:31 AM

Both heads on the V44S are pointing in the same direction at her. I wonder if they are just using one head, or if the second head is in omni to capture a bit of the room. I see a second distance mic on the guitar, so that is entirely possible. Interesting.

His videos are always experimenting with mic and recording techniques. He also does a mixture of high and low priced equipment. Some recordings are just a Zoom recorder, others might have really high end mics, others might have both high and low priced mics in the same video. The music and performances are always first rate, and the recordings are always decent if not ideal.

lkingston · #5 08-11-2022, 10:35 AM

As far as the FET technology goes, I really like FET stuff, though that may be more a reflection on how it works with my hearing loss than a real statement on FET vs Tubes. I have a couple of Tech21NYC SansAmp preamps that I often use on amplfied guitar, and while they aren’t exactly like tube preamps, they do have a really pleasant saturation component that I really enjoy.

That and there is no fear of breakage, waiting for warming up, or having to baby the equipment or use special power supplies.

I certainly hear a small amount of very pleasing saturation on that mic. Very subtle, but certainly there.

DupleMeter · #6 08-11-2022, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

As far as the FET technology goes, I really like FET stuff, though that may be more a reflection on how it works with my hearing loss than a real statement on FET vs Tubes. I have a couple of Tech21NYC SansAmp preamps that I often use on amplfied guitar, and while they aren’t exactly like tube preamps, they do have a really pleasant saturation component that I really enjoy.

That and there is no fear of breakage, waiting for warming up, or having to baby the equipment or use special power supplies.

I certainly hear a small amount of very pleasing saturation on that mic. Very subtle, but certainly there.

Yeah, tube mics are definitely more fragile...and then you have the external power supply to add to more components that can fail. Mine never leave the studio.

I kind of assumed that they had the 2nd capsule off in that 2nd video...I didn't hear anything that would indicate a 2nd pickup source...but, I could be wrong.

I think what you're feeling as saturation I'm feeling as the bite on the top end...which is typical of FETs...but I'm not getting that "thickness" that tube saturation gives a sound. I'm also not sure what processing was done after the fact. Without knowing the rest of the signal chain we don't know if we're hearing just the mic or not.

Speaking of that 2nd video, what did you think of the sE8s on the nylon string?

lkingston · #7 08-11-2022, 12:40 PM

You’re probably right about me mishearing the difference between FET and tube saturation. Josh Turner plays a lot of thumb bass lines (as do I) and what I am always looking for is a touch of low to low mid saturation to bring out the bass notes without being too boomy. I thought I heard that. I certainly get exactly that with the Tech21NYC SansAmp and Q-Strip pedals.

I thought the mic on the nylon string sounded really good.

DupleMeter · #8 08-11-2022, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

You’re probably right about me mishearing the difference between FET and tube saturation. Josh Turner plays a lot of thumb bass lines (as do I) and what I am always looking for is a touch of low to low mid saturation to bring out the bass notes without being too boomy. I thought I heard that. I certainly get exactly that with the Tech21NYC SansAmp and Q-Strip pedals.

I thought the mic on the nylon string sounded really good.

I'm not saying either of us is "right" or "wrong"...just that we're perceiving things differently. The thing with hearing is that it's a very emotionally & psychologically charged sense. I don't like the right/wrong thing...just that our perceptions are different.

Have you tried the Blackbox HG-2 (hardware or plugin)? It does that "enhance the lows" type saturation very nicely. Better than just about anything else I've tried. My previous favorite was the SPL Twin Tube...but I think Blackbox may edge it out.

lkingston · #9 08-11-2022, 01:45 PM

That looks really interesting, except that I have been working exclusively with IOS apps for the last couple of years. Before you laugh, I have found some really good audio editing apps, and have some really nice plugins. The full FabFilter collection is available for IOS for example, as are a bunch of others.

Some of the things that I thought would be an issue have instead simply been a matter of adjusting my workflow. For example, I use LumaFusion for editing video, and their color correction tools are pretty course. It turns out that I can do superior color correction for video in RAW photo editing apps like Lightroom and Darkroom, and lossless embed the tweaks a playback parameters in the video files. It is actually a superior, more precise way to work than what I was doing on the PC, but I never would have discovered it if I hadn’t been looking for workarounds. Yes, you can do the same thing on a PC or a Mac, but I don’t know anyone who does.

Anyway, no Black Box Analog Designs AUV3 plug-ins exit yet on IOS.

DupleMeter · #10 08-11-2022, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

That looks really interesting, except that I have been working exclusively with IOS apps for the last couple of years. Before you laugh, I have found some really good audio editing apps, and have some really nice plugins. The full FabFilter collection is available for IOS for example, as are a bunch of others.

Some of the things that I thought would be an issue have instead simply been a matter of adjusting my workflow. For example, I use LumaFusion for editing video, and their color correction tools are pretty course. It turns out that I can do superior color correction for video in RAW photo editing apps like Lightroom and Darkroom, and lossless embed the tweaks a playback parameters in the video files. It is actually a superior, more precise way to work than what I was doing on the PC, but I never would have discovered it if I hadn’t been looking for workarounds. Yes, you can do the same thing on a PC or a Mac, but I don’t know anyone who does.

Anyway, no Black Box Analog Designs AUV3 plug-ins exit yet on IOS.

Ok. That's pretty cool. There's a part of me that wishes I could make things that simple, but I routinely record 20 tracks at a time at the studio.

Doesn't FabFilter have a well regarded saturation plugin? That may be an option.

lkingston · #11 08-11-2022, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

Ok. That's pretty cool. There's a part of me that wishes I could make things that simple, but I routinely record 20 tracks at a time at the studio.

Doesn't FabFilter have a well regarded saturation plugin? That may be an option.

Since my hearing loss, I have been drawn to music with just a couple of really well played tracks. The iPad Pro is perfect for small track counts like that. For 20 track projects, I would stick with a computer.

Yes, Volcano 3. Also Saturn 2 for multi-band distortion. I haven’t actually tried either of them yet, but I will. Thanks for the reminder!

Fran Guidry · #12 08-12-2022, 12:33 AM

I had a lot of fun with my Avantone CK-40, but I'm way into geeking out on various stereo techniques. And of course it's hard to resist a big old hunk of candy apple red in the middle of a recording session (grin).

Here's a clip with the CK-40 in Blumlein for two guitars:

I was not to thrilled with the rotation mechanism, that is apparently one of the issues addressed in this rather more expensive Vanguard mic.

My biggest issue with the CK-40 was the uselessness of two omni selections. I just can't think of a use case, while a supercardioid for the second mic would be very useful in Mid/Side, and even better would be a continuous pattern selection for at least one of the mics and preferably for both.

Fran

lkingston · #13 08-12-2022, 09:22 AM

Thanks for chiming in Fran. I had decided to get the Avantone CK-40, then changed my mind and ordered the V44S instead at the last second.

The rotating mechanism on the V44SA seems very solid. I also think it looks a bit more elegant, which is important since my main use will be for videos like the one you just posted.

lkingston · #14 08-12-2022, 09:56 AM

I can’t think of an dual-omni uses either, but I can thing of cardioid/omni and figure-8/omni cases, so I’m glad the switches are there.

Fran Guidry · #15 08-12-2022, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

I can’t think of an dual-omni uses either, but I can thing of cardioid/omni and figure-8/omni cases, so I’m glad the switches are there.

Yes, I'm fine with one mic having omni/cardioid/bidirectional. But the optimum mid/side config is one bidirectional and one super or hyper cardioid. This resolves to an accurate cardioid XY according to a scientific paper I read years ago. So my ideal second mic would be cardioid/supercardioid/bidirectional.

And it's apparently not too hard to make the pattern options continuous from omni to bidirectional, the fairly inexpensive CAD M179 has this feature. This might make for some complications but it would also enable a lot of experimentation with stereo configurations.

Fran