LIV Golf

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by LiveMusic

Uh, huh? There is nothing in his post that is not apropos regarding his thoughts that came from reading and responding to this thread.

OP here:
For what it's worth, I agree with 12barBill. My thread was strictly about the game of golf, as it relates to the professional tours, in particular the impact of newly formed LIV Golf.
I'm sorry that members had bad experiences when they were kids, but that's not at all what the thread is about. Thanks for your understanding.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I do not support anything Martha Stewart is involved in because of her insider trading years ago. Obviously that has something to say about the type of person she is. I turn the channel etc. I do the same with many entertainers. I can quit easily not watch golf if it come to that. It won't effect the quality of my life in the least. And an argument can be made that these types of actions enhance the quaity of my life.

I don't quite know how to respond to this comment.
I'll assume you were off by one number on your cable box and had the Food Channel on instead of Golf.

[Rolph]

The PGA tour has become so boring since Tiger Woods faded into drug addiction. So lets sign up with the guys who brought us 911........Despicable.
Promote the LPGA!

[Acousticado]

Folks, some posts have inappropriately strayed off-topic. For the thread to remain open, please be mindful.

[reeve21]

I'll try to get us back on topic.

The weekly events on the PGA tour raise millions of dollars for charity. That is their real benefit to the host communities, and something that distinguishes the tour from other professional sports.

I had breakfast this morning with a friend who has been deeply involved with our local event for several decades. He knows lots of players and past and current PGA executives.

He thinks this is a real threat to the tour, and a watershed moment, as it cannot compete with the dollars being tossed around. He's not worried about Mickelson and Johnson, they are the past. But if Spieth and his generation follow suit that is going to be a big problem for the tour and the communities that host these events and benefit greatly from them.

I caddied in the local tour event several times and got to know plenty of players you never heard of. It was a heady experience for a teenager. I can't imagine this LIV tour is going to be a good thing for anyone but the very elite players who jump ship. It means they will only play the majors (except for the PGA, presumably) and a very few LIV events.

I hope it fails.

[jseth]

Checked it out and YouTube TV is going to have coverage, as well as Facebook(?)... I've not got but a passing interest in the event this week...

Thus far, I haven't seen many players joining the LIV Tour who are truly impactful to the professional sport, save for Dustin Johnson and Phil Mickelson, both of whom are fading, for various reasons... it seems very clear that the only bonus is the money...

Playing only 54 holes? Okay... Only competing 10 times a year? okay, if that's what you want... having the field be more consistent? Well, whatever.

It seems to me that playing 72 holes against a varied field is a lot of what brings spark to the whole endeavor. The reason ANY pros have stature is an outcome of having played and won against all comers, of having hit amazing shots under all kinds of pressure - without that pressure and so many varied players, they'd just be really good at the game.

I'd venture to say that without the crucible of being "forged in the fire", none of them would be nearly as accomplished or lauded...

As a lifelong player and lover of the game, I'm not "against" any sort of alternate tour, but this just seems extremely ill-fated and dubiously conceived.

While the major championships may indeed give the LIV players a "buy" this season, I do not think that "grace period" will extend past the '22 season... how can they play the PGA Championship if they are no longer members (even though the PGA and the PGA Tour are separate entities)? With no standing in the World Wide Ranking system, most of these players will not be around for very long at all...

I hope the money they make will be fulfilling for them; I know it would not be so for me.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by reeve21

I'll try to get us back on topic.

The weekly events on the PGA tour raise millions of dollars for charity. That is their real benefit to the host communities, and something that distinguishes the tour from other professional sports.

I had breakfast this morning with a friend who has been deeply involved with our local event for several decades. He knows lots of players and past and current PGA executives.

He thinks this is a real threat to the tour, and a watershed moment, as it cannot compete with the dollars being tossed around. He's not worried about Mickelson and Johnson, they are the past. But if Spieth and his generation follow suit that is going to be a big problem for the tour and the communities that host these events and benefit greatly from them.

I caddied in the local tour event several times and got to know plenty of players you never heard of. It was a heady experience for a teenager. I can't imagine this LIV tour is going to be a good thing for anyone but the very elite players who jump ship. It means they will only play the majors (except for the PGA, presumably) and a very few LIV events.

I hope it fails.

Thanks Bob, for your perspective and insights.
And since you brought it up, the Tour had raised over $3 billion dollars for charity as of a few years ago. It easily surpasses $200 million a year these days. Not chump change, and no other sport comes close.
Yeah, Johnson, and maybe Oosthuizen, are the only top 25 players in the field, and most of the rest are fading stars. Without more youthful star power, it will be hard for them to sustain enthusiasm. Mike Whan of the USGA made a good point: It's a lot easier to make noise at the beginning of a venture, than it is to sustain it in the long run.
I hope it fails too.

Originally Posted by jseth

Checked it out and YouTube TV is going to have coverage, as well as Facebook(?)... I've not got but a passing interest in the event this week...

Thus far, I haven't seen many players joining the LIV Tour who are truly impactful to the professional sport, save for Dustin Johnson and Phil Mickelson, both of whom are fading, for various reasons... it seems very clear that the only bonus is the money...

Playing only 54 holes? Okay... Only competing 10 times a year? okay, if that's what you want... having the field be more consistent? Well, whatever.

It seems to me that playing 72 holes against a varied field is a lot of what brings spark to the whole endeavor. The reason ANY pros have stature is an outcome of having played and won against all comers, of having hit amazing shots under all kinds of pressure - without that pressure and so many varied players, they'd just be really good at the game.

I'd venture to say that without the crucible of being "forged in the fire", none of them would be nearly as accomplished or lauded...

As a lifelong player and lover of the game, I'm not "against" any sort of alternate tour, but this just seems extremely ill-fated and dubiously conceived.

While the major championships may indeed give the LIV players a "buy" this season, I do not think that "grace period" will extend past the '22 season... how can they play the PGA Championship if they are no longer members (even though the PGA and the PGA Tour are separate entities)? With no standing in the World Wide Ranking system, most of these players will not be around for very long at all...

I hope the money they make will be fulfilling for them; I know it would not be so for me.

I agree it's mostly, if not only, about the money for them.
I also think that some of the young star players, like Thomas, Spieth, McIlroy, Morikawa, have a moral center and character tied more to history, prestige and institution, rather than just money. I can't see them leaving the Tour behind.
As far as the Majors go, I try to think of it with a glass half full:
There's not much the USGA or R&A can do about qualifying for an Open. Anyone can, no matter their affiliation. But getting exempted from qualifying might get harder, and like you said, playing your way in will be a whole lot tougher if you don't get battle tested on a regular basis.
Augusta will keep its clubhouse open for past winners, but may not need to change much else invitation wise as a consequence of lesser caliber players playing against other lesser caliber players on the LIV tour. These players will weed themselves out of Augusta through a natural selection process.
And the PGA is likely more amenable to pressure from the PGA Tour to revise the entry rules.
So, I am still worried about the future, but it's not as if the LIV GOlf Tour is not without its share of hurdles. Especially if they can't lure the power youth away from the Tour. I'm sure Norman is working his phone plenty. I hope he hits a wall too in this regard.

[fitness1]

I'm not sure what to think about it all.

I find myself watching golf less intently already - gradually over the last couple of years. I'll be curious to see how this turns out - wonder if they'll "pay" some of the top names on the Champions Tour as well - younger guys like Furyk and Els to show up.

I'm getting burnt out on the game itself a bit too - after playing 5-7 times a week from May to November for 27 years, I just don't like what it's become. Our course's budget hasn't allowed for starters or rangers (who never did anything anyway) and it's slowly eroded into chaos at times.

I play between shifts every day, and slow play and I are not friends

[Tyeetime]

Well, I think the PGA Tour has become somewhat of a monopoly, and needed to be upended a bit. This isn't like other 'team' leagues, these players are basically all free agents and it looks like the Tour wants to control where and when they play. The Tour was getting a little too comfortable I think, maybe it will take this to stir the pot and introduce a bit of competition which is always a good thing.

[frankmcr]

Okay, so the previous discussion of the Saudi tour - which I haven't been able to find via search here - must have ended round about February when it looked as if it had crashed & burned. But apparently it has been rejiggered and is in flight again:

https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/li...n-johnson.html

[Tyeetime]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Okay, so the previous discussion of the Saudi tour - which I haven't been able to find via search here - must have ended round about February when it looked as if it had crashed & burned. But apparently it has been rejiggered and is in flight again:

https://slate.com/culture/2022/06/li...n-johnson.html

Most of the events will take place in the USA, only 1 in Saudia Arabia, Thailand, and the UK.

[frankmcr]

Oh by the way, I meant to make a joke about "sand traps". I'm kind of busy right now though, so everybody please just consider it made.

[6L6]

I'm not surprised that Patrick Reed (aka "Shovel") made the move. I am surprised that DeChambeau and Johnson did, however.

Mickelson is a basket case, Ooshuizen (one of my favorites) just goes from one injury to another. Poulter is over the hill on the PGA Tour, etc., etc.

The guys who made the jump are not the cream of today's crop of players. Lack of TV coverage (streaming only) won't help their cause at all, nor will making the events just 54 holes... like the "old guys" on the Champions Tour play.

I think most of them felt they couldn't compete and win anymore on the PGA Tour against the young guns. On that basis, making a fast exit for a few final big pay days probably makes sense.

I've almost finished reading the new book on Phil. Some amazing revelations in there. Get a copy and read it if you have time.

[jpd]

Originally Posted by AndreF

LIV Golf

I see the emergence of this rival Golf tour as a real existential threat to the PGA Tour.
I never cared for Greg Norman that much. I thought he was overrated as a golfer, especially all his choking episodes on the grand stages.
But it’s hard to fault his business acumen. He has created a real threat to the Tour imo.

Sure did! With Tiger not ready to play, the PGA is looking like the old AFL vs. NFL. In a few seasons if all holds well, the two venues will merge into the World PGA!

[rbock]

Money vs. respect