The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-02-2020, 09:15 AM
Starter Starter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 257
Default Peter Green's pickups and tone

Hi,

I'm just curious about his line from the obituary in the NYTimes: "Mr. Green’s main instrument in Fleetwood Mac was a 1959 Les Paul Standard, known as Greeny, that had one pickup installed in reverse, creating a distinctive tone because it put the instrument’s two pickups magnetically out of phase." What does that mean, how did he do it, do other people do it, should I do it (probably not) and what songs can you hear this distinctive tone.

As I think of Fleetwood Mac songs I think of the one that starts "Well there you go again, you want your freedom": there's a particularly thick (?) electric guitar playing as kind of a response to the vocals. Is that what we're talking about.

I'm glad (but slightly humiliated) that the NYTimes expects its readers to know all about this.

will
__________________
Huss and Dalton TROM custom
Voyage Air VAOM-6
PRS SE Soapbar
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-02-2020, 09:26 AM
JKMartin JKMartin is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: in absentia
Posts: 103
Default

Post deleted

Last edited by JKMartin; 11-04-2020 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-02-2020, 04:56 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 43,425
Default

Greeny guitar has a great provenance. It went from Peter Green to Gary Moore to (I believe) a private collector and then Metallica's Kirk Hammett bought it a few years ago for an undisclosed price rumored to be $2M.

The out of phase was a "happy" accident. You need to flip the magnet in the neck pickup and then put the pickup in backwards, i.e. the pole pieces are closer to the bridge then the neck (look at the neck pickup in the pic below - you'll see only Moore has it in correctly). You may also need to rewire the lead on the pot (not sure).

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-02-2020, 05:26 PM
stokes1971 stokes1971 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 386
Default

That song is "Dreams".Peter Green was long gone from Fleetwood Mac when they recorded that.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-02-2020, 05:57 PM
guitararmy guitararmy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Mountain State
Posts: 4,201
Default

Very neat! Can't imagine holding a $2 million guitar!!

I have one of the Hamer Sunburst models where the pickups came from the Hamer factory wired intentionally out of phase in the middle pu position to emulate the Green sound...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-03-2020, 02:29 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 43,425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitararmy View Post
Very neat! Can't imagine holding a $2 million guitar!!

I have one of the Hamer Sunburst models where the pickups came from the Hamer factory wired intentionally out of phase in the middle pu position to emulate the Green sound...
Yea, a '59 Les Paul without provenance is one of the most sought after electric guitars. Add provenance with those names and it's worth $$$. Kirk Hammett actually tours with it, as hard as that is to believe. He plays at least one song on it at each Metallica concert. If he ever sells it the price will be more than $2M.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-03-2020, 06:55 PM
rwmct rwmct is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,593
Default

OP: listen to this. This, IMO, is the Peter Green sound (and playing) at its best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy7IonOLQd8

Green did not just play the Greenie. He played a Strat too sometimes. But the Greenie is iconic, and my understanding is what you hear on most live recordings.

The intro to this is my warm up routine. But it is humbling. My instructor tabbed it out for me, and there is little there above my beginner-intermediate level of playing, at least in terms of fingering. The touch is another story. Green's touch is so good, He can throw just a few notes at you and they are exactly right exactly as they are.

It still sounds good when somebody else plays it. Especially when that someone is Gary Moore. But it's not the same.

Edit: there is another version of this tune on Vol. 3 I believe, on which some people like the tone even more. The solo here, IMO, makes this one the best. Well, that and I shiver every time I hear this one.

Last edited by rwmct; 08-03-2020 at 07:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-15-2020, 05:59 AM
joebloggs joebloggs is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter View Post
Hi,

I'm just curious about his line from the obituary in the NYTimes: "Mr. Green’s main instrument in Fleetwood Mac was a 1959 Les Paul Standard, known as Greeny, that had one pickup installed in reverse, creating a distinctive tone because it put the instrument’s two pickups magnetically out of phase." What does that mean, how did he do it, do other people do it, should I do it (probably not) and what songs can you hear this distinctive tone.

As I think of Fleetwood Mac songs I think of the one that starts "Well there you go again, you want your freedom": there's a particularly thick (?) electric guitar playing as kind of a response to the vocals. Is that what we're talking about.

I'm glad (but slightly humiliated) that the NYTimes expects its readers to know all about this.

will
You can here it in the song The Supernatural. The tone, sustain and feedback he gets are due to the out of phase pickups.
https://youtu.be/0DsFnQqN8uk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2020, 07:20 AM
raysachs's Avatar
raysachs raysachs is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Eugene, OR & Wilmington, NC
Posts: 4,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
OP: listen to this. This, IMO, is the Peter Green sound (and playing) at its best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy7IonOLQd8

Green did not just play the Greenie. He played a Strat too sometimes. But the Greenie is iconic, and my understanding is what you hear on most live recordings.

The intro to this is my warm up routine. But it is humbling. My instructor tabbed it out for me, and there is little there above my beginner-intermediate level of playing, at least in terms of fingering. The touch is another story. Green's touch is so good, He can throw just a few notes at you and they are exactly right exactly as they are.

It still sounds good when somebody else plays it. Especially when that someone is Gary Moore. But it's not the same.

Edit: there is another version of this tune on Vol. 3 I believe, on which some people like the tone even more. The solo here, IMO, makes this one the best. Well, that and I shiver every time I hear this one.
Yeah, his sound was great, but his touch and his phrasing was what made him great. I'd never be able to touch it in a million years, but anytime I listen to some of his early period stuff, I seem to play a LOT better for a couple days. Because I remember to slow it down and make each note and short phrase as good as it can be. I'm a really limited player and guys like Peter Green and BB are my greatest inspiration because what they do is within my technical capabilities, but getting the feel right is always the difference between a good day and a bad day. When he died, I played some of my best stuff for about three days. And then I forgot and started playing too much again. I should probably listen to him every morning before I start playing - it really makes a difference...

I have a strat and an SG with P90s. The strat is my #1 by a large margin, but I do my best Green / BB type playing with the SG...

-Ray
__________________
"It's just honest human stuff that hadn't been near a dang metronome in its life" - Benmont Tench
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-16-2020, 12:52 PM
Cocobolo Kid's Avatar
Cocobolo Kid Cocobolo Kid is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,015
Default

My Matt Eady EG Pro custom electric guitar has a 5 way toggle switch for switching between the bridge and neck humbuckers. Positions two and four run the pickups out of phase for a different sound. I haven't tried experimenting with it much though. It was not one of the primary reasons I bought the guitar, but I do prefer it to a coil tapping option.
__________________
John
Tucson, AZ

2020 Kraut 00, Swiss/Brazilian, build
2018 Eady EG Pro Electric, Redwood/Mahogany
2013 Baranik Meridian, Blue Spruce/Cocobolo, build
2008 Baranik CX, Blue Spruce/African Blackwood
2008 Breedlove A20 Masterclass 12-string, Adi/IRW
2003 Thames classical, Euro/Brazilian
Fodera Standard 4 Fretless bass, figured walnut
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=